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Quoted from fraac

Chrono, I don’t think you understand the Swiss system. You play against teams with the same record as you. If you still can’t win any games, an 8-team div6 wouldn’t help.

omg ignore my profile oke i said like million times
why cuz they are my friend and ignore that jesus
im talking general not about me
i got np with losing cuz i was only helpig my friend im not talking bout me im talking general about new teams ofc they struggle and that stuff but if they will lose all officials dont you think that will make their motiviation to be really low?

Quoted from fraac

Chrono, I don’t think you understand the Swiss system. You play against teams with the same record as you. If you still can’t win any games, an 8-team div6 wouldn’t help.

Exactly this is what I think.
“New teams come in and play against the best teams from d4/5.” First of all in Open are very few or no teams from div4. Maybe some teams who were demoted from S19.
Then the first 2 weeks are pre-seeded in a way, the better teams aka d5 teams and top d6 get accelerated points, so the better teams play against each other in the first 2 weeks already and the weaker teams play against each other in the first 2 weeks. After those 2 weeks if you are a new team, lets say you lost both of your first matches (something that could easily happen in the old div6 as well) now you get paired against other weaker teams that also lost the first 2 matches. So the “best” teams never get to play the “new” or weaker teams, unless the “new” or “weaker” teams turn out to not be “weak” at all. And even then, they might lose the next match against a slightly stronger opponent and in the following week they will have a weaker opponent again.
Please inform yourself about the topic first, before arguing without seeming to know what you are talking about whatsoever. So far almost all of your statements are simply wrong. And this is no personal thing here, you just started it, the same goes for almost everyone supporting these claims in this thread.

Quoted from Sonny Black

[…]
Exactly this is what I think.
“New teams come in and play against the best teams from d4/5.” First of all in Open are very few or no teams from div4. Maybe some teams who were demoted from S19.
Then the first 2 weeks are pre-seeded in a way, the better teams aka d5 teams and top d6 get accelerated points, so the better teams play against each other in the first 2 weeks already and the weaker teams play against each other in the first 2 weeks. After those 2 weeks if you are a new team, lets say you lost both of your first matches (something that could easily happen in the old div6 as well) now you get paired against other weaker teams that also lost the first 2 matches. So the “best” teams never get to play the “new” or weaker teams, unless the “new” or “weaker” teams turn out to not be “weak” at all. And even then, they might lose the next match against a slightly stronger opponent and in the following week they will have a weaker opponent again.
Please inform yourself about the topic first, before arguing without seeming to know what you are talking about whatsoever. So far almost all of your statements are simply wrong. And this is no personal thing here, you just started it, the same goes for almost everyone supporting these claims in this thread.

thx for telling me
but there is good new teams just play in their first weeks against strong teams and then they will just play agianst low teams until they will win like 4games instead playing against teams in their lvl that they can lose or win is about howm uch team practice and then they will grow up to the strong team with high motivation i do understand how is the system work and still look there is alot of new teams that have like 6points from that they play a good game against other team and their lvl.

Quoted from ducky

[…]

Placing top in open and doing adequately in mid are too very different things.

To use old terms you’re saying that a top div 5 team can easily compete vs a top div 4/ bottom div 3 team, that’s just a ridiculous claim.

I never said they could easily compete at that level, so please don’t strawman my initial argument. What I’m trying to express is that the very best open teams at the moment have the potential to pick up wins against some of the lower teams in Mid at this moment in time.

As an example: My old Highlander team finished mid-table in Division 5 last season, and actually won scrims against a bottom Division 3 team and a team that won Division 4. I understand that HL /=/ 6’s, but you cannot say the same occurrences are not possible in 6’s.

[…]

Quoted from ducky

Define “good example” please.

Not every new team will be equally skilled to every other new team.
Some might have better dm, better base knowledge of teamwork and postioning etc.
These things do make a big difference you know.

I think having all the new teams play in a new team only division is a terrible idea.

Having this kind of system assumes that every new team is too dumb/bad to “take the next step up” and compete with the a little more experienced teams, taking their chance of major improvement which can only be achieved by playing against teams who are better than you.

I’ve said it before but just look at the current open tables.
The first place team is completely new, yet they’re wrecking everybody.
Your argument is invalid.

Obviously, some new teams are going to be better than others due to variables that no system can accurately predict. That goes without saying and there’s nothing you can do about that.

I’m hardly suggesting that any new team full of new players must be automatically classified as dumb/bad, but the potential for a fairer challenge for those teams in an Iron-like division is greater. If they wish to take a step up to play against stronger teams, simply scrim against teams in a higher div to practice.

Also, Sprinkler Kids is not a good example; they played in the Archimedes Cup together, reached the grand final and have active players on their roster that have been a part of ETF2L for 6 and 3 years respectively. I am referring more to teams that have no-one on their roster with prior experience in ETF2L based competitions.

[…]

Quoted from ducky

swiss system stuff

I’m not trying to make a point on the Swiss system itself because I’m perfectly fine with the Swiss system, I’m using the Swiss system as a tool to explain why such a large division is not ideal, especially when there are better alternatives to ensure fairer games for every kind of team.

If a new teams wins 2 games then quits they probably didn’t want to play that much anyway, which is fine. Let them play other games. Or tell them to focus on their Elo. :)

Quoted from Nechi

[…]
omg ignore my profile oke i said like million times
why cuz they are my friend and ignore that jesus
im talking general not about me
i got np with losing cuz i was only helpig my friend im not talking bout me im talking general about new teams ofc they struggle and that stuff but if they will lose all officials dont you think that will make their motiviation to be really low?

I don’t get what you’re saying. We’re not talking about you, we’re talking about Open in general. Like Fraac said, if you’re so bad to the point that you’re even getting stomped by other bottom of the barrel teams, an then even the Div’s can’t help you. If anything, the tier system just helps with team motivation; no matter how bad or good you are, you’ll always be playing teams just about equal to you, playing close games instead of getting constantly rolled just because you were unlucky enough to be placed in a Div packed with teams that shouldn’t be there. It’s a great system that has generated some of the funnest matches I’ve had in a long time.

Swiss System means you’re more likely to win/get points across the season. Note how many teams have 0 points in s20 to s19 (that didnt fold). 1 team has 0 points in season 20, 13 had 0 points in season 19.