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Major Update for 18/06/14
Created 19th June 2014 @ 03:40
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i hope a few famous guys are quitting,so people see what happens to tf2
Quoted from PdH
i hope a few famous guys are quitting,so people see what happens to tf2
1. won’t happen
2. valve doesn’t care if a couple of “famous” tf2 Players quit since they have never heard of them
Quoted from smziii
[…]
it doesnt matter if i call pyro an offensive class, i am just trying to show you that demoman was supposed to be a defensive class and with the new update it is :) It is still viable in 6s, good demos still get 10k damage with a different playstyle tho (less w+m1/m2 more area controll precise spam). I played about 10 pug2 games since the update and there wasnt a single match so far where the game felt really slow or anything except once on snakewater but that might be down to the map.
So i find it kinda weird that you are drawing so many conclusions even tho you havent even played tf2 since the new update ;)
Demoman hasnt been a defensive class ever. Like for 7 years. Have you actually played tf2? It doesnt matter what the class select screen says. The devs have stated that he is suited for both offence and defence. But then again, why does that matter? He had, once again, never been a defensive class.
And you say that demo is still viable in 6s? The weaknesses he had compared to the soldier where balanced by his higher damage output. Now his dmge is lower than a soldier. Why should any team run a demo at this point?
Volvo broke the meta of 6s, HL, even bloody pubs. They completely changed a core tf2 class over night. And i liked tf2. To continue the trend, i think that the heavies health should be cut in half. And come to think about it, soldiers RL should be replaced with that new lovely parachute. Oh and scouts should not be allowed to be so darn mobile. Lets remove double jump and reduce their movespeed by 20 %.
And now what are we left with? Another game. If y’all hated the fact that demo had a unique role in this game; why didnt you find another game to play? Because what we have now isnt tf2.
Quoted from Tom Spillfat
[…]
Demoman hasnt been a defensive class ever. Like for 7 years. Have you actually played tf2? It doesnt matter what the class select screen says. The devs have stated that he is suited for both offence and defence. But then again, why does that matter? He had, once again, never been a defensive class.
They wanted him to be defensive, they made him defensive. That’s the way they like it, if you are not pleased with it you may as well try to get in the TF Team and make the changes yourself.
Quoted from Tom Spillfat
[…]
Demoman hasnt been a defensive class ever. Like for 7 years. Have you actually played tf2? It doesnt matter what the class select screen says. The devs have stated that he is suited for both offence and defence. But then again, why does that matter? He had, once again, never been a defensive class.
And you say that demo is still viable in 6s? The weaknesses he had compared to the soldier where balanced by his higher damage output. Now his dmge is lower than a soldier. Why should any team run a demo at this point?
– yes i play tf2 sometimes, sometimes even on etf2l unlike yourself?? or do you need a fakeacc to boss around on forums?? (yawn)
– demo was MEANT TO BE a defensive class obviously nobody used it like that because of his amazing damage, doesnt changed the fact that when valved made the game initially the stickylauncher was supposed to be used to camp doors (watch “meet the demoman” <3) but we are running in circles here..
– and yes demo is still viable since he is better than all the other classes that are left (pyro= no damage, heavy to slow, engi to slow/stationary etc etc) + less situational (atleast in 6v6 with classlimit 2)
– maybe go and watch kaidus stream since he plays demo and he still makes it work + is credit to team
Last edited by smziii,
Quoted from smziii
[…]
– yes i play tf2 sometimes, sometimes even on etf2l unlike yourself?? or do you need a fakeacc to boss around on forums?? (yawn)
– demo was MEANT TO BE a defensive class obviously nobody used it like that because of his amazing damage, doesnt changed the fact that when valved made the game initially the stickylauncher was supposed to be used to camp doors (watch “meet the demoman” <3) but we are running in circles here..
– and yes demo is still viable since he is better than all the other classes that are left (pyro= no damage, heavy to slow, engi to slow/stationary etc etc) + less situational (atleast in 6v6 with classlimit 2)
– maybe go and watch kaidus stream since he plays demo and he still makes it work + is credit to team
Demoman is a defensive class, but when u got a med stick up ur ass . U can actually change the style of the class. Like most classes. The class itself can easly be shut down by one scout/soldier in a 1v1 situation. But your right , lets look at kaidus stream. His like the average demoman . Most ppl got the same experience,aim and gameknowledge as him.
Quoted from smziii
[…]
– yes i play tf2 sometimes, sometimes even on etf2l unlike yourself?? or do you need a fakeacc to boss around on forums?? (yawn)
– demo was MEANT TO BE a defensive class obviously nobody used it like that because of his amazing damage, doesnt changed the fact that when valved made the game initially the stickylauncher was supposed to be used to camp doors (watch “meet the demoman” <3) but we are running in circles here..
– and yes demo is still viable since he is better than all the other classes that are left (pyro= no damage, heavy to slow, engi to slow/stationary etc etc) + less situational (atleast in 6v6 with classlimit 2)
– maybe go and watch kaidus stream since he plays demo and he still makes it work + is credit to team
If demo was meant to be a defensive class, why had his role been different for 7 years? The devs had a sudden change of heart and decided to change his role after 7 years. That is what happened. Putting aside all that, the way the demo worked was tf2. Devs intented for him to originally have a dynamite stick. Does that mean that its the true way demo should have been played? No, the way he was IN THE GAME was the way he was intented to be played. Now the game has lost of its unique roles.
Btw, scouts main role is 2 kel heavy with bat and teak his sandvich. Go watch meet the scout.
Demo is now a gimped soldier. Just because one of the best players in the world can make him work “ok” doesnt mean he is balanced. He’d do better as a soldier at this point. Much better.
Last edited by Tom Spillfat,
“The demo was fine for these 7 years, it already got a few nerfs (pipes got nerfed at the start by reducing clipsize and stopping them from detting on contact after the first bounce and stickies got range falloff later on). ”
“Fine” is pretty subjective. also nerfing something doesnt mean its balanced depending on how broken it was(in this case vanilla demoman is extremely broken)
“Anyone who has played around the top tiers of the scene knows that demo trades the big damage output for a huge weakness in close combat (in which both soldiers and scouts excel in). This nerf weakens the demo even more up close and takes away the mid-range damage capability as well, only leaving the playstyle of backpedaling away and laying down traps on points and what not.”
or maybe youll just start cooperating with your other players more by providing some assisting damage and use pipes for close ups (aiming oh no) instead of spamming everyone out.
“Too bad running into traps is pretty 2009. ”
Yeah no one ever puts defensive stickies on mid.
“You guys think the demo slows the games down, I think it speeds them up. The burst damage creates openings for your scouts and soldiers to do their thing. ”
you can still get ~70 damage with sticks except now you have to aim and cant deny chokes that easily anymore which slowed the game down a lot more.
“Spam aside if you happen to hit those 4 consecutive pipes, you’ve just reached a measly 400 damage.”
It can kill anyclass except fully overhealed heavies and has no damage drop off thats barely measly
” Just take a moment and compare that to the 400-450 dmg of a rocket launcher clip (less with splash of course, but there’s no splash damage for pipes on contact to a surface)”
shame that solly has damage drop off and will barely ever actually reach that damage potential
“or the 600 something damage of a scattergun.”
Again how often will a scout be able to get that close to players and land six full damage shots? If you let him get that close without killing him you probably deserved it
“And both of those classes have sidearms very suitable for medium/close range combat as well. So basically now you’re a soldier with a quite underpowered sidearm, and forced to hit direct hits with your main weapon, and for this fun you pay by giving out 25hp compared to the soldiers. ”
id trade my pistol for a sticky launcher any day
“The question arises why would anyone run a demoman anymore, when a soldier becomes way more efficient in creating space and tanking damage. ”
Because a demoman is still a very fast class and running slow classes like heavy to mid or when pushing is really stupid in 5cp, Obviously koth and ctf will be played differently from now on but the strategies already differed before this patch and its also hardly surprising considering how differenly you play them, that snipers and heavies will be more popular there.
also you cant run 3 sollies dummy 8)
“Sure I can see why all the div5 soldiers like doks are all horny about this. They can finally just sit next to their medic for the whole match and rack up that top dmg, with no fear of anyone burst damaging them out of their overheals.”
A well aimed sticky still does more then 70 if you also let a roamer bomb them or just let about anyone assist you you can still kill or push them back out.
Quoted from MCbanana
“The demo was fine for these 7 years, it already got a few nerfs (pipes got nerfed at the start by reducing clipsize and stopping them from detting on contact after the first bounce and stickies got range falloff later on). ”
“Fine” is pretty subjective. also nerfing something doesnt mean its balanced depending on how broken it was(in this case vanilla demoman is extremely broken)
“Anyone who has played around the top tiers of the scene knows that demo trades the big damage output for a huge weakness in close combat (in which both soldiers and scouts excel in). This nerf weakens the demo even more up close and takes away the mid-range damage capability as well, only leaving the playstyle of backpedaling away and laying down traps on points and what not.”
or maybe youll just start cooperating with your other players more by providing some assisting damage and use pipes for close ups (aiming oh no) instead of spamming everyone out.
“Too bad running into traps is pretty 2009. ”
Yeah no one ever puts defensive stickies on mid.
“You guys think the demo slows the games down, I think it speeds them up. The burst damage creates openings for your scouts and soldiers to do their thing. ”
you can still get ~70 damage with sticks except now you have to aim and cant deny chokes that easily anymore which slowed the game down a lot more.
“Spam aside if you happen to hit those 4 consecutive pipes, you’ve just reached a measly 400 damage.”
It can kill anyclass except fully overhealed heavies and has no damage drop off thats barely measly
” Just take a moment and compare that to the 400-450 dmg of a rocket launcher clip (less with splash of course, but there’s no splash damage for pipes on contact to a surface)”
shame that solly has damage drop off and will barely ever actually reach that damage potential
“or the 600 something damage of a scattergun.”
Again how often will a scout be able to get that close to players and land six full damage shots? If you let him get that close without killing him you probably deserved it
“And both of those classes have sidearms very suitable for medium/close range combat as well. So basically now you’re a soldier with a quite underpowered sidearm, and forced to hit direct hits with your main weapon, and for this fun you pay by giving out 25hp compared to the soldiers. ”
id trade my pistol for a sticky launcher any day
“The question arises why would anyone run a demoman anymore, when a soldier becomes way more efficient in creating space and tanking damage. ”
Because a demoman is still a very fast class and running slow classes like heavy to mid or when pushing is really stupid in 5cp, Obviously koth and ctf will be played differently from now on but the strategies already differed before this patch and its also hardly surprising considering how differenly you play them, that snipers and heavies will be more popular there.
also you cant run 3 sollies dummy 8)
“Sure I can see why all the div5 soldiers like doks are all horny about this. They can finally just sit next to their medic for the whole match and rack up that top dmg, with no fear of anyone burst damaging them out of their overheals.”
A well aimed sticky still does more then 70 if you also let a roamer bomb them or just let about anyone assist you you can still kill or push them back out.
The problem is that the soldier now beats demo in his class role – to do damage. Meanwhile, the solly doesnt share any of the weaknesses that the demo has. That is the main issue here. Its like giving scout a sniper rifle and still expect the sniper class to be viable ;_;
Somebody on the tf.tv forums summed it up pretty well: demolitions man can no longer demolish.
Quoted from Tom Spillfat
[…]
The problem is that the soldier now beats demo in his class role – to do damage. Meanwhile, the solly doesnt share any of the weaknesses that the demo has. That is the main issue here. Its like giving scout a sniper rifle and still expect the sniper class to be viable ;_;
You can still outdamage sollies and be efficient as a demoman if you adapt to the changes and soldier still doesnt have the same kind of area denial that the demoman has. Demomans role alone isnt to do damage, its a lot more than that.
Is the scouts role in 6s to only get kills and roamers to only pick medics? Its quite hard to define a class’ role in to essentially one word.
Last edited by ekkelund,
Quoted from Tom Spillfat
The problem is that the soldier now beats demo in his class role – to do damage. Meanwhile, the solly doesnt share any of the weaknesses that the demo has. That is the main issue here. Its like giving scout a sniper rifle and still expect the sniper class to be viable ;_;
I think this is the biggest problem. Until now you had people really wanting to play a class because it meant they could be the best at an aspect of the game they enjoyed. Demo maybe most of all, you’d get people who were specialist demomen and much worse at everything else. I can see the game losing some appeal for them. I’d guess the demos who like to micro maincall will keep using stickies, the dm ones will use the sticky jumper and become roamers, and the rest will either change class or give up.
Quoted from Tenshi
“All Demoman stickybombs now have damage ramp up. Full damage is reached 2 seconds after firing.”
RIP Demoman 2007-2014
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