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Quoted from doks

pyro + SC = indestructable sentry gun.

I hate highlander so i couldnt care less. If thats what you think would make for interesting games – enjoy LOL

I bet you’re the 1 of those players who will rage if someone in enemy team (6v6) goes Perma Sniper/Pyro/Heavy

I LIKE 6s, though. Never said I don’t – I wish I was better at any of the 6s classes so I could experience it a bit better, properly and in higher divs. Unfortunately, that isn’t the case, but still.

Let’s not make this thread a 6s vs HL discussion pretty please.

Quoted from hr

[…]
It’s probably more because highlander is a terrible idea for a competitive game mode than anything, but if you enjoy it then carry on.

Offtopic: I don’t get why you have to be so attention craving and narrow minded, to make a post like that in a thread about highlander. Highlander has been around for 4 years now, and you still haven’t accepted it’s existence. Move on please.

Ontopic: Sorry Foxy, but the SC is still too good :(. A n00b-engi can easily shutdown a good demoman, just by holding Mouse1, which in my eyes is a huge gamechanger. The SC was good the way it was way before the updates. You relied on timing and positioning to deny a kritz.

Quoted from Ruskeydoo

If we want “balanced” classes, then that means all classes should have equal importance to HL play, regardless of the fact that they fulfill different roles in the team.

never going to happen

Quoted from Ruskeydoo

[…]

If we want “balanced” classes, then that means all classes should have equal importance to HL play, regardless of the fact that they fulfill different roles in the team. The SC is a great tool for this as it makes the engy more important while making the demo less.

We can’t have equal importance of all classes without having them all do the same thing. And this isn’t Counter-Strike. There’s 9 classes and each one has certain things that it’s supposed to do. Some are more important, some are less important, but that’s just how it is. If you want to jumble everything up, you have to do it all at once, and not just for engineer. But I don’t want to see it done at all, because… it’s good how it is now.

Quoted from Permzilla

[…]

never going to happen

It could if we as a community wanted it to. If Valve implement an in game comp system then it will almost certainly start happening and the current comp would have to get with it or become obsolete…

Quoted from Scissors

[…]

In lower divisions, a team can win solely by having a good demo or heavy, sure.

But one thing I like about highlander, is that every class has their own niche role, and that adds up to make the better team in the end.

A good example is our own team, some people claim we are getting carried by people such as elysium or kaylus, when the reality is that we suffer far more when we don’t have people like Evil or Sprayer.

Something I really like about highlander, and that has been a major element especially in this particular season, is the fact that it isn’t necessarily the team with the best players that wins, but the team that manages to use each class to their best ability.

If the demoman is so much better than every other class, how come most teams still play around the heavy?

The day that every class except for demo/sniper/medic becomes useless, I am all for looking into major meta-changers, but why fix something that isn’t broken?

If I didn’t want diversity, I’d just play 6s (sh0tz fired)

I agree with you and none of your points are mutually exclusive to a better class balance. In fact all of the things you’ve said are good would be improved with better class balance right?

Quoted from Candle

[…]

We can’t have equal importance of all classes without having them all do the same thing.

I don’t follow the logic of this statement. Why can’t things be equally game effecting but different?

are you telling me each player is valuable to a team? I never knew that.

Quoted from Ruskeydoo

[…]

Ok, lot here, let me try untangle it:

1) “Because things are almost completely opposite of that right now.”

The opposite of what I said: “equally game effecting but different” would be “all classes the same but effecting the game in different ways” which it clearly isn’t?

2) “It would take way too big of an overhaul to make every single class matter as much as demo/medic. And how would you even do it properly? ”

Well you’d start in small steps… maybe implementing a weapon that made one of the less useful classes more important and one of the dominant classes less ;)

3) “And you can’t just start doing it, one by one, on the engineer first. That would make the engineer overpowered, would it not?”

First up you seem to be making the assumption that if you want to increase the presence of the engy you need to make him more prevalent than any other class (ie. overpowered). I think that’s a bad assumption, using the SC as an example: “does the addition of this weapon make the engy the most powerful class?” I’d argue not.

Secondly Who said it needs to be done one by one? Weapons such as the diamondback and reserve shooter increase the value of other undervalued classes.

No, what I meant by the opposite is that there’s a very obvious difference between a class such as spy, scout, pyro compared to a demoman or a medic. As in – a spy down for your team is pretty much insignificant compared to a demo/medic down for your team (when you’re pushing or when they’re just about to push)

I would love it if all classes were just as important as one another, but it just seems impossible to pull off. I don’t mind someone trying to achieve this one bit, it’s just that using the SC to try to pull it off is a bad idea, because.. SC is overpowered.

I don’t think the proper approach to making all the classes balanced (which we both know will never happen) is giving one class that is supposedly “weaker” than, for example, the demoman, a weapon that.. makes him deny the demoman.

I’d rather he gets an entirely new role, that everyone gets entirely new roles with entirely overhauled, perfectly balanced classes – in which case, he would be able to be as powerful as the demoman, not a counter to him.

But.. even then, altogether, I don’t think that’s how TF2 was meant to be played. Hell, most games have classes that are more powerful than others.
What’s important is that each has a specific role that they’re supposed to fulfill, even if it’s slightly more or less important than others. It’s pretty much inevitable.

Breaking engineer’s role while not touching any of the other ones is a mistake.