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Quoted from ondkaja

[…]

Arguing isn’t about convincing the other that they are wrong, it is about getting feedback from the other part. My previous comment was a sarcastic remark since he didn’t adress any of the issues that were presented in the thread, just a silly rebuttal on that he apparently knows what he is doing, which isn’t a proper response at all.

The following is going to be very frank, so don’t read this if you are easily offended.

I would describe fraac as a naïve idealist, trying to come up with solutions to non-existant problems. Apparently his experience as a division 5 team-leader it is very to arrange a “good” game. To solve this problem, he feels that he needs to exclude a certain skill level from #tf.wars, so that he can practise against teams of equal skill level.

This poses a number of problems, which were taken up by smzi. He didn’t adress those issues, and when people keep bringing them up he just replies with a passive-aggressive remark instead of actually being constructive and coming up with counter-arguments.

It is highly annoying that people that have severe attitude problems (arrogance, pride, etc.) and are unable to take criticism start up new projects that they become leaders of. This is an example, tf2pickup.net is another. And the main problem isn’t that they are bad leaders, but they take a position of power within the community. Right now, fraac has the power to decide which teams are worthy of being in his group, and since he lacks the ability to take and respond to honest criticism, he is more likely to abuse this position of power.

So what have we accomplished by this group. Now the community has been split needlessly, division 6 teams can’t test out new water. Division 5 teams only play with themselves and might not take the step towards searching division 4 games. And we have a bad leader for this group.

Yes, I am being a bit over-dramatic, but it’s the principle of this that makes me very annoyed, that a bad project leader starts up a new project to solve a problem that could’ve been avoided by simply searching a bit higher div on IRC or contacting team leaders personally. The project itself is fundamentally flawed since the leader can’t take criticism into account and this is doomed to fail. The consequences are bad for the community but at least the project leader can take pride in leading a group where shit teams can play with themselves and never improve.

Wut wut

Arguing isn’t about convincing the other that they are wrong, it is about getting feedback from the other part.

I agree! :O
It’s just when that devolves into sarcastic remarks and insults, it gets pointless (thus I simplified the issue). I got nothing against a good argument but a good argument is more poignant if you don’t throw needless sarcasm and cussing into the mix.
’tis all

Quoted from FUN POLICE RUINS TF2

If it works then good, if not then too bad. What’s the problem?

This, don’t see why it matters to everyone else really. What’s the worst that can happen?

Quoted from Cuttlefish

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This, don’t see why it matters to everyone else really. What’s the worst that can happen?

Splitting the community, TF2 dead, etc.

RIP tf2.

Quoted from juan

hes just trying to help, it might not have been the best idea but he tried and all u are there calling him out but something i noticed, almost none of u are div 5. so whats ur interrest?

I know it’s like Obama making laws for white people, man what a fucked up world that would be!

6v6 div4/5 on 19cet teams only or add leaders

Was that so fucking hard?