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Just played a PCW with the new scout achievments, (against – we object to these weapons and refuse to use them.) and i feel that the game has been completely destroyed. All the hard worked caps, taking middle, taking spire, to be pushed back by a fucking boink ball which 2 scouts can bat at your medic AND soldier whilst in uber is completely retarded. I for one will never play any opponent who wishes to use these weapons in a PCW, the game has been destroyed, there is now no use for uber, and both push and defence tactics.

I hope to see these weapons removed or altered by valve. In other words, sandman is made to a normal melee weapon with some 5 second speed buff when you kill someone or something like that, atleast then its made a fun unlockable.

“I hope to see these weapons removed or altered by valve. In other words, sandman is made to a normal melee weapon with some 5 second speed buff when you kill someone or something like that, atleast then its made a fun unlockable.”

nice idea howdeh: like weaker power but one which gives you more speed for a short time

There are clear flaws with both the sandman and the Bonk drink.

Firstly the Sandman is designed to be a high risk/ high reward weapon. This alone is fine. The backburner also shows this, as well as the Kritzkrieg to an extent. The problem comes because there is a difference between the risk of using a KK than the risk of no DJump.
You know before you spawn whether you will need double jump to a huge extent compared to the KK, mainly because Djumping relies heavily on map design and opportunites that do not change.

This means scouts will apply the high risk/reward when the high risk counts for very little, but the reward counts for just as much. At this point we have a midly risky weapon for a high reward, and its imbalanced.

Bonk Drink is absurd because its a passive effect of invincibility, like an uber, that requires no previous action otehr than spawning with it. Passivity means it requires less input from players, and ultimately requires less skill than something active like a kritzkrieg or natascha.

What it should have been overall? A melee weapon that you can charge a swing for more damage/crit but does less damage, or swings slower for more damage, or something equally uninteresting like most other melee sidegrades.

2nd pistol should have been the stunning weapon, if stun was something valve really wanted. It should have required good accuracy, the amount of stunning should have relied on an ammo meter similar to the Cloak meter, as in the more you use it the longer it takes to get to max again, as well as applying a max time allowed to stun. Should have been simple to use, should have forced you to remain at a reasonable distance from the target, and most importantly must have required you to maintain your stun gun on them for them to remain stunned, so that when you changed weapons, they could do their thing again.

Scouts couldnt have killed anyone with it alone, forces teamwork. Requires good aiming, adding onto the skill sets required by scouts already. Cumulative ammo metre would mean that scouts would need to decide how long they would stun for, and how much they would save for later.

Its a bit late for the scout now, but if valve had simply asked comp players how we thought these weapons would act in 6v6 play, we could clearly have told them the designs were flawed.

But if you could do that everytime an uber is used, it is useless. And the chances of missing a soldier with a stupid stun ball isn’t pretty high. I completely respect why you used the weapons and I hold no grudge against you, your team. However, we felt our game was destroyed after experiencing what these unlockables can do as half of the time we had to be so cautious in-game especially when holding choke, and when you pushed us back from spire to mid with your uber, our counter meant nothing because we were stunned – that personally destroys the game, considering if that stun wasn’t there, the point was sure to be ours still. Our scouts also got annihlated at mid straight away as the ball instantly smashed them in the face, obviously not the best dodging skills I agree, but to walk out of house, under bridge to have a ball into your face is rather annoying.

We played a good game and my team and I hold no grudge against you or obs. I hope we can play some more at some other point, without the annoying comments from both sides ;)

Why do you compare uber (shooting while invincible, no negative effects afterwards) with bonk drink (shorter effect, no shooting possible, only reloading, burnout effect) ?

I concur with you that Sandman needs some (or much) rework, but why is it a stun that doesn’t belong to any fps? If this wouldn’t be TF2, our gameplay police here (or better GSA, gameplay security agency) would definately say something like “INVINCIBILITY DOESN’T BELONG TO ANY FPS” (with caps, ofc) or “AUTOAIM WEAPON DOESN’T BELONG TO ANY FPS”. This is actually TF2, and with some modifications, I’m not seeing any problems with adding something novel instead of just another crit mechanics on unlock weapons.

Like 95% of all posts regarding changes are saturated with value judgements, absolutely no basis for discussions, change this if you want to be regarded as of full age.

Baseball itself fits btw perfectly into TF2 environment, emphasizing this unique comiclook.

Regarding this interim state of sandman bit (notice to gameplay police: you can correct me here) overpowered:

We played many months (or even years ) with overpowered demomen (dl2), to reduce this a bit until Valve reworks Sandman:

Sandmanlimit 1!

since classlimits.

It’s not the 2 nailguns that are OP.