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TFTrue 2.8
Created 30th December 2008 @ 10:15
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where did I say i’m posting it?
lulz :o
What people want is to remove the random factors of the game, that’s all.
I dont want that.
A subset of ppl want it, another doesn’t.
Splitting the already thin community over this issue isn’t worth it.
If you release the code, people are going to modify the plugin and cheat… What a stupid statement…
I think somebody that is able to do that, can also create a cheat plugin with no need of TFTrue source code.
We don’t even know what are max and min damage values, and what kind of random spread do they have.
I played 2 or 3 pickups with this plugin, and I just can tell that it almost feels the same thing. So I don’t understand why it would be used.
Why demo-nerf?
Because now, I nearly never need three nades for a scout (you can do the math), so TFTrue does not really put me into a better position as a Demo. Nowadays, I need two nades and sometimes, one does the trick. With TFTrue, I will always need two nades, which puts me in a position worse than it is now.
Elimination of luck …
It still does not justify the costs. Luck plays no real role in the outcome of a season and not even a match (you do not lose the match because of one nade but because of thirty minutes of worse play), thus the abolition of the luck factor is unnecessary, so we have no real benefit.
No benefit but existing costs = do not do it.
BTW: My chance of one-shotting a scout (assuming a damage spread of 60 – 140) would be 18.75%. The chance of needing three shots would be ~0.1%. (I assumed a linear spread. Number vary greatly with the actual damage range. If the damage range would be 65-whatever, my chance of needing three would be 0%.)
So this takes away 18.75% of something favourable and 0.1% of something bad.
That is a horrible deal and certainly a demo nerf.
Yes luck can be a factor for a match, the damage is random for every weapon, not just the demoman grenades. Why not just remove it when you can? And there are almost no costs, once we’ll fix the soldier self damage thing on Linux, the plugin will be stable, exactly as version 2.1 is.
Does anyone have a Linux server where 2.2 crashes when someone connects? That would help to fix the problem. Thanks.
Each change is linked with winners and losers.
It’s quite sure NOT linear spread, like most spreads a normality.
Loser of this change is the oneshotting demo/scout/soldier, winner in most cases the same classes + medic/heavy, so it’s a zero-sum game.
Looking forward to see this mod on season 4!
The idea is not to remove all randomness, it’s just not feasible.
But some really lame parts of this randomness, which can be removed, should. Like this oneshotkills of scouts/DEMOS/soldiers.
notger for president! anakin your case seems to become more and more futile.
i really hope you are being sarcastic…
notger:
if you are playing an equally skilled oponnent and you stalemate for 25 min, at the last min the demo gets this lucky shot killing the medic who had uber in 1 shot. therefor losing the round.
if we can eliminate any luck, we should. Luck does even out in statistics but in practice this doesn’t translate.
1 demo misses his high damage nade, the other one gets a hit with it. still they both got a high damage nade they only got it at a different point in the match.
Scout shooting long distance getting his high damage range shots but it doesn’t do much since he’s not close enough, other scouts gets his high damage shots up close killing the other scout/medic in 1 shot.
if we can take this out it would make the game just more fair. i can agree on tweaking some of the fixed damage values tho, but the random range should be gone.
Where did this start?
If i remember correctly we were talking about strange damage spikes connected to the last update. The “no random damage crowd” jumped the wagon and took over the momentum.
I think random damage is part of TF2. It makes it more interesting.
Lets take the demo for example.
Should the demo be able to oneshot ppl?
Generally: Not every class. Not every time.
Yes he should be able to kill a scout with one shot. But not every time. But it shouldnt take him more than 2 nades.
No, he should not be able to kill a medic with one nade or sticky.
Where does this lead to in respect to 200hp solis? Should he be able to kill a soli with 2 nades every time? No, i dont think so. If he is lucky? Perhaps…
A little number game with nade damage along those line.
D-max > 125 (chance to 1shot scouts)
D-max < 150 (not 1shot medics)
D-max < 200/2=100 (not 2shot solis)
D-min > 150/2=75 (2shot medics and scouts)
D-min > 200/3=67 (3shot soli)
Looking at those numbers, dmg should be
max above 125 and below 150,
min above 75 and below 100.
Hard numbers are 99-125 dmg.
The lower end has to go down more. Its too close to the soli 200hp. 95 leaves the soli with enough health to cry, as he should be after catching two perfect nades. Those two nades would also take care of a fully buffed scout every time. 95 min is damn high.
From the other direction 2 perfect nades should kill the medic, thats 75.
Now assume an even distribution over the damage range as it is right now.
Lets take 80-130 to calculate percentages:
This makes 105 avg dmg. This would mean 2shooting a soli and 3 shooting heavys more often than not, 60% of the time.
1shooting scouts 10% of the time. Which i think might be a little bit low.
Oh, i just buffed nade damage. Look at that.
If i look at the damage values on tf2wiki.net i can get around the impression, that valve balanced the stuff damn good. (If the values on tf2wiki.net are correct.)
We need the hard numbers of weapon min/max damage without hitbox/distance modifiers to run the statistics on. Then we can start the theory-crafting and realy see what the influence of min+max/2 is.
Please point out why random damage is making the game more interesting. And why a demoman should be able to oneshoot a scout, but not a medic.
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