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New update info, spy/medic/engy gets a tweak. scout next. PHEAR THE SCOUT
Created 11th December 2008 @ 23:58
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Don’t be rediculous people. Sticky change will barely effect power of demoman. If scouts/sols etc choose to destroy stickies to regain control of chokepoints/entrances then ultimately its a similar tradeoff for both parties (scout/sol wastes ammo and time and has to reload, whilst demo buy’s time for his team and also reloads as per usual).
I suppose it will have a slight impact on demoman’s ability to hold a choke INDEFINATELY at mid points, but that is never really necessary anyway. A factor of several seconds is enough to ensure an advantage.
Normal sticky traps won’t be affected as they are always either:
A. Placed on ground at sliding doors/entrances and detted immediately when door is opened; or
B. Placed on walls/ceiling out of sight where shooting them directly is implausible (or at least massively and stupidly impractical)
In short form, the sticky nerf should prove insignificant to demo’s ability to control areas of the map.
Mainly the cries of op’ness stem from the massive potential damage output, and lack of damage drop off at range for pipes, neither of which have been addressed as it stands, so pipe spam will still practically stand for winbombs and stickies will have an almost identical effect in duels, as its obviously more practical to dodge stickies than try to destroy them.
The only potential threat would be a heavy’s ability to clear ground stickies quickly, but it won’t impact on the dynamic any more than shooting them out of the way would have done previously, except possibly regarding a heavy’s ability to guard a sentry gun, which is pretty irrelevant, and there is a simple solution: det stickies at sentry just as they hit sentry and before they land.
Provided that stickies can’t be destroyed mid flight, I see no reason to assume ANY negative impact for demo. The only bonus is tonnes of ammo for other classes.
It is a good nerf tho, it prevents a demoman just camping for life on a particular choke point.
Kovac’s the trade off you described is not entirely correct mate, when they shoot the stickies it becomes ammo, for each sticky shot for a soldier it gives him 16 rockets lol… So the ammo thing is not a trade off however being fully loaded with ammo is another :D. The awareness and “ready to aim” factor is compromised as for example if the soldier wants to get past a point where there are 5 stickies he will be focussing on the stickies rather than say a scout coming in or a soldier or a demo and bang hes dead. So there is a trade off.
I think its a good nerf just need to sort the ammo given out per sticky because 16 rockets is too much lol. However… This will not affect a demoman when deathmatching, its exactly the same as before when you’re in combat its the same before the update, only thing affected is camping stickies really.
Makes using a heavy now much better for certain maps especially turbine. I’m for the update even tho it is a nerf for the demo, but as i can play other classes i can see why ppl would want a nerf for the demo too!
wp valve ! =D
Cheers
Byte
update ftw… =) glad I became a scout he he. demobalance ftw.
So to summarise, you basically agreed with me about everything *except from tradeoff of classes getting more ammo and being distracted dealing with stickies* (read last sentence in my post) or said what I did in different words? :D
The accompanying benefit of area denial by stickies is TIME. It will still be more practical to shoot CLUSTERS of stickies (i.e. 3-4 stickies covering crate choke on granary mid) with rockets/other splash damage weapons simply because of urgency in any mid/high level game. Rockets will still be much quicker than a shotty/scatter gun for clearing space to move urgently before the opposing team takes full control of a point.
The time advantage gained is so much more important than the opportunity to inflict damage or make kills because of the sticky placement as lets be honest, anyone with a clue of how to play isnt going to go running over/past an obvious cluster of stickies in the hope that the demo isn’t watching him.
spy is ridic imba now
any half decent spy will be able to rip ass in matches now. in pubs its even easier. gg valve
Sheeeeiit.
Like the medic stuff. Nice
Demo, I don’t know about yet, havn’t played. Could work – enemies focus on shooting stickies, become obsessed and don’t notice a Scout coming at them – or, it will be rubbish, and teams will quickly cotton on to the most efficient way to remove stickies. If 2 soldiers and 2 scouts fire at a field of stickies, they can pretty much all go down :/ Giving 16 rocket ammo is far too much. Should be the same as a small ammo pack. Probably will be alright tho.
Spy is going to be very fun. Something I have thought might be interesting for a while, could possibly be overpowered now Spies can charge from enemy dispensers, altho this just gives them a greater chance to get away.
Engy is interesting, tho I can’t see any team waiting to get a level 3 teleporter in setup.
Hope there’s a way to turn off that annoying HUD about achievements. Just catered about achievement pub whores :(
Generally positive update, altho I ABSOLUTELY HATE how Valve gives us no warning. If demos don’t work, I’m going to be so fucking angry. Not fair to those trying to make movies etc if we go to bed and wake up with them not working the next day.
It’s hilarious how they’re catering to the public audience, yet manage to make a nerf that doesn’t affect publics at all but does affect the competitive scene to some degree. The problem with demomen on pubs is that there are always a billion of them and they are spamming entrances. I’d like to see how it’s possible to destroy stickies fast enough so that ~5 demomen camping doors on dustbowl aren’t able to replace them in time.
edit: Also, don’t you dare nerf my baby!
I tried a bunch of old demos (including one from September) last night after updating and they all seemed to be working fine so your grand frag movie plans will all be fine ;D
it will be the same than before anyway on high competition games , i dont know any demoman than use pipetrap on the floor …
I am agreeing with Arx (surprie surprise) & Mick on this one.
High level competition will hardly be effected with these updates being designed for more lockdown maps & public play.
Mike
KOVACS: Sticky change will barely effect power of demoman.
It will definitely affect some standard tactics.
Granary 2nd point, stickies on the logo won’t be particularly effective.
Badlands middle point, stickies on the entrance/”door” to the middle can be easily removed
Turbine when defending (having stickies on the corners)
Gravelpit when the defending demo stickies the attacker’s exit, a scout can run out and literally remove the stickies
General stickying up last point. I’ve seen several time a scout running to the last point, seeing stickies on it and shooting at them so they’ll move a bit. Now they will actually remove the stickies.
So in my opinion it will change the way a demo should play. I also assume that it will be easier to trigger the demoman’s stickies by shooting at the stickies, since he will know that if he doesn’t trigger them they will be gone in a few seconds.
As people are saying, it won’t have any major effect on the demo, but it is an interesting nerf. I’m looking forward to see how it works out.
It will have a slight impact, but nothing to warrant the numerous pub heros spamming their demands for it’s removal on the steam forums. Then again that’s the steam forums, but still.
not played yet, if you shoot the stickies, do they actually still explode? Would be logic imo.
“and giving more information to medics when people are calling for them.”
YAY. Medic is OP now :D
The problem wasn’t stickies being used as traps/area denial, or demolition of sentry guns. The problem was the sticky launcher being used as a better alternative to the rocket launcher (does more damage, has a nice arc, could explode when you wanted them to, larger clip, etc). Yet this update makes the first two weaker and doesn’t effect the latter use at all.
The demoman is massively overpowered and remains that way.
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