Forum

lolhl

I’m not too fussed whether its banned or not, but could anyone that has posted something along the lines of:
“I don’t know how to counter it, therefore it should be banned.”
please enlighten us on how to counter it?

Better yet, show us moments of how hartz/other beggars sollies have been countered in scrims/officials.

edit: just saw the hildreth surfing clip, should maybe point out that what hildreth did is only possible on some maps.

Quoted from scrambled

I’m not too fussed whether its banned or not, but could anyone that has posted something along the lines of:
“I don’t know how to counter it, therefore it should be banned.”
please enlighten us on how to counter it?

Better yet, show us moments of how hartz/other beggars sollies have been countered in scrims/officials.

edit: just saw the hildreth surfing clip, should maybe point out that what hildreth did is only possible on some maps.

Can’t 100% counter everything, it’s all situational. You can make life harder for the person bombing by pre-empting it, gaining early sight, getting early calls, getting people prepared on how to deal with it. If you see anything early enough, it increases chances of succeeding. Different classes are super strong in different areas, you don’t run into a spun up heavy if you can’t avoid it, you don’t run into a Pyro on Steel E, or sniper sightline on Lakeside. You certainly don’t try to run through choke points when a Demoman has sticky bombs, but it happens because you get pressured into the scenerio for whatever reason (clock, pressure, needing to get shit done or not paying attention). Best thing you can try and do is avoid all the situations where you face a class in a powerful position as much as possible and hopefully some other element can make it work.

Besides the question isn’t about how to counter the thing, it’s about measuring if the weapon has no trade off – situationally it does short bursts of high damage, SITUATIONALLY. Getting to those positions requires lot of skill mastering the weapon mechanic, hell I can’t do it. But for all it’s great potential doing short burst damage, stock rocket launcher gives you great mobility options when it comes to staying alive, plus accuracy, plus you can always use the Black Box and get free hp back, or Direct Hit and 1 shot 1/3 of the other team and have near impossible rockets to dodge. It’s all about trade off, whilst beggars is powerful in certain areas, it isn’t good in other areas, hence why Hartz doesn’t use it as much cos he knows this better than anyone.

Watching Hartz kill Nursey 7 times in Viaduct last season was fun, whilst he got the headlines for all his medic kills, uubers did more damage, stayed alive twice as much and helped his team rule the flank. I’d rather have a soldier that is alive twice as long than one that is dead suiciding the medic, any soldier will tell you trading life for medic isn’t always worth it. And beggars doesn’t allow for much escape route, you’re basically on a kamikaze mission most the time.
http://logs.tf/797742?highlight=76561197970513199

Quoted from EmilioEstevez

[…]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9fFaRb-d-E&t=6m16s
OK so where do you stand on this map.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9fFaRb-d-E&t=9m16s
Or this map.

Literally the only map where this isn’t a problem is steel because its mainly tight corridors.

People will never run beggars full time because it isn’t useful if you want to hold a flank, etc, but if you need a cheap med pick then you just switch to it and do a dumb suicide which you should be able to nail pretty consistently with a short amount of practice. The problem is there isn’t a counter to it, whether or not it succeeds is entirely dependent on whether or not the soldier knows where your medic is and hits his jumps correctly, if he does then he’s flying through the air from outside of your sight lines and landing on your med with multiple rockets ready. There isn’t a counter to that play even if you see it coming from miles away (unless you hit multiple airshots and kill him before he’s close to your medic).

http://logs.tf/1092790
http://logs.tf/1085989
http://logs.tf/1095697
http://logs.tf/1095487
http://logs.tf/1094313

Sort them by med picks, are you seeing a pattern yet? Maybe you should mentor all these prem teams since you obviously figured out something they haven’t.

If we’re not going to ban beggars, can we atleast ban hartz instead? B)

Perfectly summarised. The weapon doesn’t force other sollies to switch to it, but it’s just not possible to avoid your medic getting forced or dropped in all maps except steel. I’ve wanted it out ever since it’s gotten allowed, but no luck. Season has already started now though so the chances of league admins banning something mid-season is 0.

And don’t give me this “Hartz is too good with it”. Any prem solly worth their mettle can practice with it for 2 weeks and you’re good to go. The difference is most of those sollies are ashamed of using it.

Quoted from Lazybear

And don’t give me this “Hartz is too good with it”. Any prem solly worth their mettle can practice with it for 2 weeks and you’re good to go. The difference is most of those sollies are ashamed of using it.

Just like they should be. And not just prem sollies would be able to reach the promised land of shitty beggars plays. You can see them in this thread already.

Here’s how you counter beggars…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axsZMXNNXjs
Love you void <3

Quoted from Bloodis

Did anyone of you hear that there’s this fancy just recently again whitelisted unlock called Short Circuit that can destroy projectiles?

It denies 2 classes but doesnt kill them. And it cant deny all 3 rockets at the same time, at least 2 rockets will always hit an engie using SC