Forum
Allowing a few unlocks?
Created 7th June 2012 @ 11:42
Add A Reply Pages: « Previous 1 ... 3 4 5 ... 21 Next »
Quoted from TWEEKARN\
why bother to post in this thread? it’s never going to happen whatever suggestions you come up with
To poll basically.
Quoted from MightyMe
[…]
I suggest you to watch some high level American games ( quantic vs flow was recently played ) and see if you still think these unlocks have only downside effects.
Say that the unlocks were to be allowed it doesn’t mean that everybody would play like quantic etc.. Some lower level american teams probably “abuse” the unlocks making for some extremely boring games.
Also no.
Quoted from Admirable
The end game has not been reached for vanilla by a long shot, level up your game bros…
Where’s nvc when you need him..
BONK drink for scout…gogogogo!!!!!!!!!
Quoted from MightyMe
[…]If we look at ESEA, we do not see any of the abuse of unlocks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_j2DXL4X4sY&hd=1
???
“(…) the game easier, more forgiving, just downright annoying or a combination of those three.”
You say it makes the game easier, but I disagree, BOTH teams are able to use these unlocks, so none of the teams has a bigger advantage over the other team, and thus, it should be harder, not easier.
This is true though. Please stop making this mistake people. Stop simplifying arguments. MULTIPLAYER GAMES CANNOT BE SIMPLY “EASIER” OR “HARDER” THAN OTHER MULTIPLAYER (META)GAMES. Multiplayer games involve actual people on both sides to which the SAME rules apply. The difficulty depends on the person at the other end of the line, not the game.
The problem of this whole discussion is that we as a European community will NEVER get to a consensus of what should be allowed. Everybody will have their own little argument about pros and cons for each weapon. I typed way too much on this subject already and I can’t be arsed to repeat myself; but we have to remind ourselves that the core principle of TF2 is distinctive class gameplay, and that’s what makes TF2 unique amonst teamplay shooters. Allowing too many unlocks that blur the lines between classes and their applications in battle-scenarios breaks with the underlying principle of 6v6 TF2.
Now, on the other hand, the unlocks which do keep the core principle of 6v6 TF2 intact should be seriously looked at and considered. The problem here is that we can never seem to have a good conversation which doesn’t end up in flaming/trolling or people simply not even reading other people’s posts. The most efficient and fair practical solution to getting to a new unlock concensus would still be an elected/chosen panel of admins/players system in my opinion. This panel should definitely be weighted more (but not exclusively) towards higher division players (reasons why are obvious and also have been elaborated on in the past).
Last edited by skeej,
Gotta love all the ARGUMENTS put forward by the people who don’t want change or are willing to consider.
Quoted from SiTeHBu0mbb
Gotta love all the ARGUMENTS put forward by the people who don’t want change or are willing to consider.
Why should you change something which is working quite well?
Scout
“makes it harder for enemies to push on a small uber advantage.”
Why would you want a more stalematey game?
Also it makes your soldiers more dispensable which encourages mindless bombing. It forces soldiers to play smart as to not lose points.
Soldier
Gunboats – Ehhh… Again with the mindless bombing. I think it would need some kind of counter (such as the direct hit, a weapon made to counter the gunboats) otherwise you’d have some pretty unhappy medics.
Equaliser – Easier rollout (for both medic and soldier) and it allows soldiers to get away after doing stupid shit. I don’t see what it does apart from lowering the skill needed to play soldier.
Disciplinary Action – I don’t really see how this benefits anything. It allows for some pretty obnoxious bombs, especially when combined with the gunboats. I don’t think the other classes should be given any more manoeuvrability. The reason the combat classes have been picked is because of their good balance of mobility and firepower.
For instance, the heavy has a few pros:
-Excellent close range damage
-Large amount of health
-Disables bombing
but the reason he’s not incredibly overpowered is because he’s so slow. If you remove his main weakness making him balanced he’s going to be used a hell of a lot more. The problem with this is that heavy gameplay is incredibly boring for the teams and spectators.
Heavy
Sandvich is much better after being nerfed but I don’t like the idea of a medic being healed by another class. You need to keep your medic alive with health packs and his tiny amount of regen. It would mean teams which didn’t protect their medic well enough wouldn’t be punished as hard as he can always have a lovely 75 hp boost.
Medic
Fair enough I guess
Sniper
Sniper isn’t overpowered as he is much more situational than the cookie cutter lineup.
If he were overpowered teams would use a sniper 24/7.
Jarate – Again I don’t see what it adds. I, and many other people, use a graphics config which makes my screen look like ass when I get jarated. It doesn’t help that I’m semi-colour blind but I can’t see shit when I’ve been jarated.
Spy
Cloak and Dagger – Allows not-so-good spies to get a very high success rate when pushing last. There is no real reason to use the invisi-watch if you can use the cloak and dagger as you’re not constantly hunting action.
Dead ringer – Undecided on this one. Doesn’t seem all that useful unless you’re gonna go for some sneaky friendly disguised fake death.
Overall
I think we should keep it to vanilla + medlocks as it’s easy to remember. I don’t want to go back to the days of memorising a whole list of unlocks which were allowed (yes, I know a whitelist would help but it’s still very important to know what your enemy can use on you).
Vanilla tf2 is a very balanced game. Kritzkrieg and the ubersaw were excellent additions that added some flair to the game. The later unlocks were sadly less well thought out.
Last edited by Starkie,
If for some reason the equalizer, bonk or sandvich was allowed I would quit this game. Overdose in the other hand doesn’t sound that bad.
Quoted from SiTeHBu0mbb
Gotta love all the ARGUMENTS put forward by the people who don’t want change or are willing to consider.
gotta love putting up the same arguments we did two years ago just so baddies can calm down
Quoted from Monkeh
1. if you lose both soldiers then you shouldn’t be able to build uber quickly
2. US lobbies
3. then the enemy medic and demo will NEVER survive a mid fight
4. stupid weapons that give every soldier the chance to escape or for scouts to build uber after you’re bad enough to lose both sollies at the same time
1. But demo can. No reason for the last main class in 6s (i.e. scout) to stay useless.
2. Lobbies? Great example. Would clap.
3. Thanks God, less trap-checking/uber stalemating.
4. Equalizer. Following your way of thinking: “if you lose both scouts then you are punished by not being able to finish off 15 hp sollies”. Really, it’s pretty hard to run away on such a low health when you chased with shotgun/scattergun fire. If Medic get killed with equalizer, blame scouts, it’s their fault.
Boston Basher. As I said, “losing sollies = not being build uber faster” is a lame argument. Also, hard get killed with it, and easy to kill melee scout, in case if weapon will be used in the way it meant to.
Gunboats. Shotgun is very efficient weapon against scouts and losing it harmful for self-defense. Talking about 2-3 jumps on medic, I doubt it’s easy to kill him while you have 1-2 rockets loaded, and no other weapon. Again, if Gunboats solly kill anything, blame scouts. Team status: punished.
Actually, I can justify even Backburner, not talking about other weapons: if your team was bad enough to let the Pyro behind you, get your punishment.
tl;dr unban basher, gunboats, equalizer
Add A Reply Pages: « Previous 1 ... 3 4 5 ... 21 Next »
content rss