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Allowing a few unlocks?
Created 7th June 2012 @ 11:42
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I’m all for it.
1.pain train was always literally a pain
2.flaregun was cool before it got them mini crits. still, pyro is the coolest class 4 ever!
3.shotgun > gunboats. jumping is fun though and i like to play as suicidal as possible.
4.disciplinary action: no! hwg should be slow to mid, even though there aren’t enough hwgs in 6vs6
5.boston basher is cool, like the idea of having the ability to build uber while soldiers are dead/bombing/camping
6.jarate: xD no!
7.overdose and equilizer: see the disciplinary action. i just can’t like the idea of being faster than the class “supposed” to be.
now i did my duty and said something about unlocks for the first and last time. gg
Last edited by ouch,
Quoted from MightyMe
“(…) the game easier, more forgiving, just downright annoying or a combination of those three.”
You say it makes the game easier, but I disagree, BOTH teams are able to use these unlocks, so none of the teams has a bigger advantage over the other team, and thus, it should be harder, not easier.
I’m afraid you don’t quite get what I meant by that. Easier as in roll-out is sooo much simpler with equaliser, lower skill ceiling. Bombing is soooo much easier with gunboats. Lower skill ceiling. Escaping from some bad positioning is so much easier with equaliser. Lower skill ceiling. Pushing last is sooo much easier with Jarate. Lower skill ceiling. Building uber is easier with boston basher. Lower… The list goes on and on.
Also, half the medics in EU tf2 will quit as getting bombed to death at EVERY mid fight is so far from fun it’s ridiculous. I believe the US scene had problems with shedloads of medics quitting after gunboats were brought in.
Also, also, maybe the reason US TF2 is a lot smaller than the EU scene is unlocks, pontification, but a worthwhile mentioning.
Also also also, the fast paced nature of the US games stems more from the fact it’s first to 5 and not ‘best of half an hour with winlimit 5’.
The ‘good side’ to the majority of unlocks just make you lazy, forgive bad play or transform a class away from it’s core role…which just makes having classes almost pointless.
Last edited by Monkeh,
Quoted from MightyMe
[…]
Hey, thanks for sharing.
I totally agree with what you said, gunboats make the game faster, but having 2 would be ridicilous.
About the pain train, ESEA uses it, and I think most demomen have it equiped but what you said about using it on gravelpit, both teams are able to use it, so that should not really be an issue. I don’t see any reason why not to block the pain train, more intresting for backcaps by either the demoman or a soldier. Just faster cap time overall.
I’m not sure if we can actually have itemlimit 1 ( as a console command ) but we could just have a rule of maximum 1 pair of Gunboats, 1 pain train, etc.
The paintrain example was a (bad) example to sketch a situation where it is used to deviate from game mechanics. Another point would be having 2 paintrain soldiers doing that jump traxantic (that is his nickname, was in IDK) showed on youtube for badlands last, giving a near instant times 4 on that cap combined with strong enemy denial. (Most likely this is again a bad example but still, map mechanics is more easily disturbed than assumed).
The only possible unlock for me would be the gunboats. That doesn’t necessarily lower the skill sealing. You don’t have secondary firemode anymore, only the shovel and your rockets. And flick jumping might be a fun asset to watch in games. But the rest of the unlocks are a no-no and I’m very happy with the vanilla rules now.
Last edited by Andee,
Quoted from Monkeh
[…]
Gunboats and quitting medics text
Yes, it does lower skill ceiling to jump, but also forces better rocket placement.
Gunboats would be used to jump more than once, e.g. thats 4-2=2 rockets loaded, and no shotgun. This would mean that jumping soldier has to place them both ‘good’ to be able to get a succesful bomb off. So whereas the jumping gets easier, the killing gets harder.
There will always be up and downsides to unlocks and obviously a change of gameplay. “Downside” here that you point out is that playing medic gets harder, but I thought that people who wanted to get high in divs easily went medic?;)
—-
Also in a general response it takes a while for a community to adapt to unlocks.
Everybody hated the paintrain demoman, yet on the slower maps you were rarely countered by a heavy to negate your advantage (10% extra bullet dmg goes quite fast against a heavy), or (to a much much lesser extent) engineer on last. It is still a relatively uncommon choice to react with an engy to the enemy pushing your last with kritz, usually a sniper or more recently a pyro gets whipped out whereas they aren’t the ‘best’ choices one can make to counteract.
Last edited by SiTeHBu0mbb,
fuckNA2012
Alternatively we could try getting fucking good at a time when the level of play is at an all time low.
From what I am reading here you think you could kill more or survive easier with unlock X when really you just need to learn some core skills like positioning and timing. Every single one of these unlocks is a crutch for bad play.
The end game has not been reached for vanilla by a long shot, level up your game bros…
WTF Jarate? I’m going to swap my smg that is never used for mini crits for my entire team every 30 seconds. Jesus man.
Gunboats would be PERFECT for 6v6 gameplay.I have always been wondering why they arent allowed.
IMO you should also allow maybe Gunslinger to make the Engi more useful and Disciplinary Action. Equalizer would be great, too^^
Flare Gun is just too strong against Scouts. Axtinguisher/Degreaser would be OK, but no must-have.
no.
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