Forum

plz allow escape plan ty

Quoted from wpminnows

plz allow escape plan ty

and gunboats

This whining seems pointless. I for one am against the idea of allowing more unlocks because it’ll be never-ending.. “you added x, why not y?”

Also, adding things like gunboats/quick escape would totally change the soldier..”LOL BOMBED IN 5 TIMES, STILL GOT DECENT HEALTH TO RUN AWAY WITH QUICK ESCAPE”

One of the big problems with allowing unlocks is that it creates inconsistency in the game, much like random crits did. if you never know what your immediate opponent is capable of, you have to rely on luck or good guess work which is significantly less fun than relying on skill. Having too many unlocks adds complexity but not depth to the game and promotes gimmicky play instead of solid, skillful play.

On the other hand, there are a number of unlocks which actually does increase the depth of the game, or simply works in such a way to make them beneficial to have in the game.
It’s all about finding that perfect balance between having unlocks that make the game better and adds strategical depth to the meta-game, while still keeping the inconsistency to a minimum. In Europe we’ve decided on only 4 unlocks, 2 of which share the trait of being straight upgrades to the stock weapon when they were first introduced. The blutsauger and ubersaw are, or were, straight upgrades to the stock weapon, which means that no one ever uses the stock weapon, which means that there effectively is no inconsistency added to the game by these weapons, only new features. Clutch ubersaws is one of the best parts of TF2 in my opinion, and the blutsauger used to enable the medic to better protect himself, although it has now been nerfed enough that I suggest we ban it, just limit the potential inconsistency that the weapon could add to the game.
The crossbow and kritzkrieg are both very different from the stock counter parts, but good for the game for reasons I’m not going to elaborate on, although with the recent buff crossbow might actually be a straight upgrade now. Time will tell.

The point I’m trying to make here, is that if we want to introduce a new unlock into the competitive scene it is actually an advantage if that unlock is a straight upgrade to the stock weapon, since everyone will now know what to expect when they run into that class.
The FaN was largely disliked, not because it was better than the scattergun, but because of how different it was from the stock, and when you ran into a scout you never knew whether you were about to fly half way across the map or not, which was very frustrating to most people.

Keeping this in mind, I think allowing the escape plan would be a good idea since it’s a straight upgrade to the shovel, which means that everyone would use it (speed boost at low health + 65 damage). Soldier is most certainly the weakest of the three competitive combat classes, and it all comes down to how helpless the soldier is once he is at low health. Crawling around with 40 health is one of the most frustrating aspects of playing soldier, since scouts and demos are capable of fighting at mid-range just fine on low health, and even if you get close enough to take them on self-damage will almost certainly kill you. Allowing the escape plan would alleviate this weakness of the soldier to a degree, enabling him to fight on much more even ground with scouts and demos, all at the cost of no inconsistency!

TL;DR: Allow the escape plan, it would make the game better.

Allow everything or nothing easy.

And what the f– is “clutch escape”, this is not ctf. And anyho whay would you wanna change so called cultch escapa in to a mandatory escape with gunboats and escape plan?

Quoted from Beater

One of the big problems with allowing unlocks is that it creates inconsistency in the game, much like random crits did. if you never know what your immediate opponent is capable of, you have to rely on luck or good guess work which is significantly less fun than relying on skill. Having too many unlocks adds complexity but not depth to the game and promotes gimmicky play instead of solid, skillful play.

On the other hand, there are a number of unlocks which actually does increase the depth of the game, or simply works in such a way to make them beneficial to have in the game.
It’s all about finding that perfect balance between having unlocks that make the game better and adds strategical depth to the meta-game, while still keeping the inconsistency to a minimum. In Europe we’ve decided on only 4 unlocks, 2 of which share the trait of being straight upgrades to the stock weapon when they were first introduced. The blutsauger and ubersaw are, or were, straight upgrades to the stock weapon, which means that no one ever uses the stock weapon, which means that there effectively is no inconsistency added to the game by these weapons, only new features. Clutch ubersaws is one of the best parts of TF2 in my opinion, and the blutsauger used to enable the medic to better protect himself, although it has now been nerfed enough that I suggest we ban it, just limit the potential inconsistency that the weapon could add to the game.
The crossbow and kritzkrieg are both very different from the stock counter parts, but good for the game for reasons I’m not going to elaborate on, although with the recent buff crossbow might actually be a straight upgrade now. Time will tell.

The point I’m trying to make here, is that if we want to introduce a new unlock into the competitive scene it is actually an advantage if that unlock is a straight upgrade to the stock weapon, since everyone will now know what to expect when they run into that class.
The FaN was largely disliked, not because it was better than the scattergun, but because of how different it was from the stock, and when you ran into a scout you never knew whether you were about to fly half way across the map or not, which was very frustrating to most people.

Keeping this in mind, I think allowing the escape plan would be a good idea since it’s a straight upgrade to the shovel, which means that everyone would use it (speed boost at low health + 65 damage). Soldier is most certainly the weakest of the three competitive combat classes, and it all comes down to how helpless the soldier is once he is at low health. Crawling around with 40 health is one of the most frustrating aspects of playing soldier, since scouts and demos are capable of fighting at mid-range just fine on low health, and even if you get close enough to take them on self-damage will almost certainly kill you. Allowing the escape plan would alleviate this weakness of the soldier to a degree, enabling him to fight on much more even ground with scouts and demos, all at the cost of no inconsistency!

TL;DR: Allow the escape plan, it would make the game better.

Excellent post. And as for those who keep saying “endless discussion” we like to argue, problem? just ignore the forums if you hate seeing people argue over and over.

Quoted from AcidReniX

1) Stick to vanilla + medlocks, with no exceptions, accept the game that way, and all other unlocks aren't even considered. This keeps things neat and tidy, and familiar ruleset. I do thing that ALL medic unlocks should be allowed though, again, it makes things easier, and also opens up a few other strats.

Exactly this. Vanilla TF2 is best TF2 and medlocks are important too. All reskins should be allowed too and everything is fine.