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Allowing a few unlocks?
Created 7th June 2012 @ 11:42
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Hey,
lately I’ve been playing quite a few tf2.pug.na’s ( American pickup games ) where they, opposite from Europe, allow some unlocks such as the gunboats, boston basher.
I really like to play with these type of unlocks because they actually have some influence in the playstyle: a gunboats roamer can do more powerfull bombs, a boston basher scout can help his medic build uber even though his soldiers are dead.
Sadly ( this is all my opinion ) they also allow some weapons that I would not like to see in the European Team Fortress 2 League, weapons such as The Direct hit, Cow Mangler, the Sandman, Rocket jumper, etc.
So I have an idea and want to hear your opinion about it.
How about we allow a few unlocks here in the EU-Scene ?
Scout:
– Boston Basher, allows the medic to build uber even though other classes are dead, makes it harder for enemies to push on a small uber advantage.
Soldier:
– Gunboats, allows a roamer that barely comes asking for buffs, and is able to bomb from greater distances ( double / triple jumps ) which makes the game faster and more intresting.
– The equalizer, allows the pocket soldier to rush to middle as fast as the rest of his team, while the roamer gets a buff.
– The disciplinary action, gives you the power to boost your teammates so that they are faster to mid, especially important for your medic.
Pyro:
I don’t want to see any unlocks being allowed for this class, the pyro should stay an offclass class to fall back on while defending ( or sometimes attacking ) last capture point. If we were to allow weapons such as the degreaser, flaregun, and axtinguisher, a pyro can kill a scout within a couple seconds. ( set on fire, launch, flaregun minicrit *90dmg, dead )
Demoman:
I can’t think of any weapons that would improve the gamestyle if we would allow those. Personally I think the shield might be a cool addition, but it supports the opportunity to troll around with it to much, so it would be best to keep it banned.
Heavy weapons guy:
– The sandvich. I am not sure if we should allow this weapon or not, it might encourage more people to go heavy outside of defending ( or sometimes attacking ) last point. It could still be a good addition to save your medic instead of having him to run back to the resuply cabinet.
Engineer:
See pyro, I personally can’t come up with any weapons that would improve the gamestyle without making the class overpowered.
Medic:
– The overdose, makes it easier for a medic to escape from combat when he has to.
Sniper:
– The jarate? I am not completely sure whether or not we should allow the jarate. It might be overpowered, for example: if you push in gullywash last with full uber advantage, and your sniper also jarated 4 of their players, there is a really small chance to mess that up. It also might make the sniper even more overpowered ( since it can already 1 shot 1 kill every single class in the game ) but I want to hear your opinion about it too.
Spy:
I can’t really come up with any special weapons to allow, but perhaps allowing one of the watches would make it more intresting to deal with an enemy spy. So:
– Cloak & Dagger + The dead ringer?
Maybe none of you want to see any chance with the current white list, but please share your opinion on these weapons whether or not they should be allowed in the European Team Fortress 2 League. Or maybe you have a weapon in mind that you really would like to see being allowed!
Anyways, please comment, but try to keep it civil and don’t troll, I don’t want to see this thread getting locked :(
p.s. Maybe having a one-night cup with these weapon rule set would be intresting to test out which weapons we should, and should not allow?
I would like to have these unlocks – Gunboats limit1 Pain Train limit1 maybe equalizer limit1 you couldn’t have gunboats + equalizer, that needs to be different sollies.
Last edited by afro,
eq,gunboats,overdose would be cool.
imho all the unlocks mentioned above as possible inclusions are all making classes good at what they shouldn’t be good at or just reward sloppy play…if you lose both soldiers then you shouldn’t be able to build uber quickly, rolling out with equaliser is too easy, as is escaping from the bad position you put yourself in.
Yes it would open up a lot of speshul tactics, I mean why not go for double pocket scout with boston basher and double gunboats soldier, then the enemy medic and demo will NEVER survive a mid fight, but do we need it…NO….HELL NO!
I used to be pro-unlocks but after similar experiences to yourself, (albeit in US lobbies instead), I now find them incredibly irritating and they just make the game easier, more forgiving, just downright annoying or a combination of those three.
The medlocks we play with here make for a great game and there’s enough offclass potential for a whole load of tactics and fun, we just don’t need stupid weapons that give every soldier the chance to escape or for scouts to build uber after you’re bad enough to lose both sollies at the same time.
Then there’s the argument about balancing things, 1 unlock is countered by another 1 or 2 so where does it stop? Allow gunboats then the scout mid range beast weapon, the name of which I forget, would be nice to shoot them down mid air with, allow the whip then the buffalo steak sandwich should be allowed for the heavy to get there faster, allow jarate then mebbe buff banner or the other backpack thing should be allowed…it just goes on and on.
Medlocks was discussed for ages, finally settled on and changing anything now would be silly.
Since we already play vanilla + medlocks, I could see the medic getting a few more unlocks.
Other than that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yg2u_De8j5o
its so sad
I really enjoy watching esea games just beacuse of their agressive/fast playstyle. It’s pretty much something new for me and really exciting. We should try adding some new unlocks and try them out in pickups or one night cups.
We need some changes imho…
Quoted from Monkeh
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Thanks for sharing your opinion, I agree with most of what you said, but you are only focusing on the downside of allowing these unlocks.
If we look at ESEA, we do not see any of the abuse of unlocks.
They do not roll double gunboats soldier, or double scouts with boston basher ( don’t know why you would do that but okay ), the gameplay has not entirely changed, it just made everything faster and more challenging.
We already have bombing soldiers, the only difference is, is that they do not have gunboats so their job is harder to do right now. If both teams have a gunboats soldier it could make the midfights more intresting.
“(…) the game easier, more forgiving, just downright annoying or a combination of those three.”
You say it makes the game easier, but I disagree, BOTH teams are able to use these unlocks, so none of the teams has a bigger advantage over the other team, and thus, it should be harder, not easier.
And if you think it will be more annoying, that’s your opinion and I’m not gonna so anything bad about that, sure it might be annoying to get a double jumping soldier on you from furious heights @ granary middle as a medic.
I suggest you to watch some high level American games ( quantic vs flow was recently played ) and see if you still think these unlocks have only downside effects.
No for almost every unlock, even though some might sound good.
The ones I would allow are those that don’t directly influence the game much (e.g. both your soldiers dying with a scout able to build removes the punishment for losing your soldiers), but only serve to speed it up.
I would consider allowing:
-Gunboats, because they speed up the game due to the extended jumping, while at the same time losing the shotgun is quite vital in finishing off opponents. (GB itemlimit=1 maybe?)
-Overdose, gives the medic a bit more survivability due to increased movement speed and (if on uber) might promote a more risky playstyle by making milking uber more beneficial. (Higher risk-reward element, should also increase gamepace)
-Paintrain(??), not sure about this one, would give more synergy between flank and main team, if allowed 100% itemlimit=1
All other unlocks I can think of at the moment either make gameplay choices less punishing, or remove an element of difficulty (e.g. DH airshots). It would be important to set an itemlimit I’d say, because in some maps you can get ridiculous plays. As an example when the paintrain was allowed a few seasons back I remember running paintrain on gravel to A, jump back into spawn to switch back to normal melee (because of sentries on B) and I believe at least one soldier did it with me so that skewers some balances present in the gameplay/maps.
Personally I’m up for some more item variation, but seeing I main demoman it is very likely there won’t be anything in it for me except annoyance:)
Last edited by SiTeHBu0mbb,
Quoted from SiTeHBu0mbb
…
Hey, thanks for sharing.
I totally agree with what you said, gunboats make the game faster, but having 2 would be ridicilous.
About the pain train, ESEA uses it, and I think most demomen have it equiped but what you said about using it on gravelpit, both teams are able to use it, so that should not really be an issue. I don’t see any reason why not to block the pain train, more intresting for backcaps by either the demoman or a soldier. Just faster cap time overall.
I’m not sure if we can actually have itemlimit 1 ( as a console command ) but we could just have a rule of maximum 1 pair of Gunboats, 1 pain train, etc.
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