Forum

Quoted from Tornf4lk

[…]
not necessarily. imo there are more than 6 maps that could be good: badlands granary gravelpit gullywash snakewater viaduct turbine chojjes new map, darkslayer(?)’s new map etc etc. I really don’t get why we should limit ourselves so badly when there are plenty of good maps we could play. New maps into a map pool=creativity and new tactics and not just DM and perfection of old tactics winning the fights(typical blands any1?)

Sure, we definitely should play viaduct, as it is the best map in TF2 – but ETF2L have proven that we can’t trust the general populace to vote for a decent sixth map.

If a poll is the only way to go (which it isn’t, but the admins are stubborn) make it so only the team leaders (i.e. one person per team) of the signed up teams can vote – no one else.

I was talking to Crasp about this.

What we should do is have 3-5 maps being tested by Prem/div 1 players at the end of the season, ones that have been tested by map testing group, perhaps. Then once they have played them a bit. Allow them to vote.

The reason why the old system sucks/this one is better:

First, currently no custom maps will ever get voted for. People don’t play that many custom maps, this means that although a map can be great, if no one plays it, it won’t get in the Season.

Second, maps that have been played in pervious etf2l seasons are more likely to get in. See Frieght (bad) and Obscure (bad). Because these maps were in previous seasons they got more votes, preuly because people remember them and don’t know any other maps. This is stupid.

Third, people have a terrible sense of balance, see Frieght. As not everyone understands balance equally and, for example, don’t spend time testing maps and talking to map makers, the idea that everyone should have an equal say is stupid. This is also the reason why just having admins decide is equally as bad.

The way I suggested means that we are more likely to get a good 6th map.

Quoted from CrashSite

I was talking to Crasp about this.

What we should do is have 3-5 maps being tested by Prem/div 1 players at the end of the season, ones that have been tested by map testing group, perhaps. Then once they have played them a bit. Allow them to vote.

The reason why the old system sucks/this one is better:

First, currently no custom maps will ever get voted for. People don’t play that many custom maps, this means that although a map can be great, if no one plays it, it won’t get in the Season.

Second, maps that have been played in pervious etf2l seasons are more likely to get in. See Frieght (bad) and Obscure (bad). Because these maps were in previous seasons they got more votes, preuly because people remember them and don’t know any other maps. This is stupid.

Third, people have a terrible sense of balance, see Frieght. As not everyone understands balance equally and, for example, don’t spend time testing maps and talking to map makers, the idea that everyone should have an equal say is stupid. This is also the reason why just having admins decide is equally as bad.

The way I suggested means that we are more likely to get a good 6th map.

So we would suggest prem/d1 to play the maps we have played in the map testing group then? (quay and other betas) or are you thinking finished maps like pro viaduct and croissant?

Quoted from CanFo

[…]
Since we can not force anyone to test maps: How should this be achieved?
What do you think about two, maybe three skill based map test cups after the season finished and only the players who played in these cups are allowed to vote the map pool?

You take advantage of a pre-existing community group, who test maps. Then on their suggestions and perhaps those of the community if you wish, give them to top teams to test. You can do it in cup form, might actually be good. If they agree. You would need to talk to them. Infused seemed to be up for it, as did YYT, kinda.

This would be best solution I think. As I really don’t want to play Frieght again. Also anyone who doesn’t vote gpit is a heathen.

Quoted from Mark

[…]

The design isn’t that complex, just run the vote after the teams have been seeded, with one vote per team (using the “team owner”). That way you’ll only get votes from people who are actually going to play in the league.

Usually after the seeding week 1 immediately starts and we try to release the map pool as soon as possible so people can prepare for it. Sure, we could try to do it the other way around (first tables, then map pool) but I, as a player, would rather have it as it used to be (map pool ~2 weeks before week 1). What do the others think about this topic?
The “team owner” role would have be created first as well, by the way, and I do not know how easy that is and you can not deny that letting only one role vote in polls (which is a different software) WILL require some coding and I do not know if SpikeHimself can spare that time soon enough to realize this.

Quoted from CanFo

[…]
Usually after the seeding week 1 immediately starts and we try to release the map pool as soon as possible so people can prepare for it. Sure, we could try to do it the other way around (first tables, then map pool) but I, as a player, would rather have it as it used to be (map pool ~2 weeks before week 1). What do the others think about this topic?
The “team owner” role would have be created first as well, by the way, and I do not know how easy that is and you can not deny that letting only one role vote in polls (which is a different software) WILL require some coding and I do not know if SpikeHimself can spare that time soon enough to realize this.

So seed the teams 2 days earlier and then run the poll over the 2 days. This is not difficult. And yes I appreciate it will take some coding work – that’s why I said the design – not the implementation. That said, it seemed easy to add the “buddy/great buddy/inactive” roles…

Quoted from Mark

That said, it seemed easy to add the “buddy/great buddy/inactive” roles…

Buddies and great buddies were easy because buddies = normal user and great buddies = leader
Quoted from Greg

out of interest is there a way to add the map poll to the signup to league page, that way each team that enters the next season can only vote once

Sounds like a good idea, will ask SpikeHimself tonight