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[S11] Map Pool Feedback Thread!
Created 12th January 2012 @ 18:53
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Quoted from SoniX
I honestly want to hear the reasons why people voted freight, it’s just not a good map for 6v6, at all.
I voted for freight, mostly because I didn’t want to play turbine, but also because it’s one of those maps where you can ‘offclass’ for roll-out, snipers and heavies both utilised succesfully.
Also:
Quoted from Enef
I voted for freight
Says The Original Mr. “Seriously….fuck freight”!
Wow.
Last edited by Monkeh,
Quoted from SoniX
I honestly want to hear the reasons why people voted freight, it’s just not a good map for 6v6, at all.
this sentence is missing a vital “i think”. i have never had a bad game on freight even when we were on the losing side.
i voted for freight because i think it is fun in 6v6. i like freight*. remember my previous post about personal preference? i can’t talk for those of you that objectively sit down and graph out the pros and cons of every map taking into account every possible scenario before making the unbiased descision that it objectively shouldn’t be in the map pool**, but it was possible that my enjoyment of the map factored into my descision making maybe more than a little
i don’t hold it against you not liking freight but i hope that me liking freight doesn’t make you unreasonably angry and prone to making rash and undeserving comments about my sexuality.
we can all still be friends. i even rented season ten of the simpsons if anyone wants to hang out and pretend we’re teenagers and talk about our hopes and dreams and shit
*i also like steel and gravelpit and on occasion, turbine. hooray! lynch me!
**i am assuming this is what everybody is doing instead of freaking out that there is a map in there they don’t like and trying to portray their particular personal preference as factual opinion about the map’s worth because that would just be silly and counter-productive
Quoted from sloldier
meeeeh
wall of shit text
what are you talking about? let’s play then 100 maps: jump_quba , surf_sky2 etc
(for this comment I take a 2 month timeout)
4 maps in map pool
badlands
granary
gullywash
gravel pit/snakewater
Last edited by CanFo,
Quoted from Kenny
[…]
what are you talking about? let’s play then 100 maps: jump_quba , surf_sky2 etc4 maps in map pool
badlands
granary
gullywash
gravel pit/snakewater
Raised this point as well those 4 maps would be fine.
Also no one has been able to answer my question from the first page
Why do we have to always have 2 random maps to provide a feeling of “freshness”?
so I assume no one really wanted this so called “freshness”.
Last edited by Si^,
Quoted from Si^
Open question to the community:
Why do we have to always have 2 random maps to provide a feeling of “freshness”?
Especially when over half of us can not be bothered to test them out in 6 v 6 till forced upon by etf2l.
Maybe I’m missing something but what do you mean by “freshness”? do you mean why do we have to have new maps and other maps rather than just gran/blands/gully?
Last edited by Jazz,
I am glad we play more than 4 maps, having to play gullygranlands over and over and over in PCW’s means that it becomes less fun. I don’t mind a stable 6 maps, but I wish people would actually play them in PCW’s more. For example it is too hard to find a gpit game outside of the weeks of play. It is my favorite map and no one seems to be bothered as it actually takes teamwork.
Once again the same discussion at the start of another season, “why is map XXX in the mappool”. Yes, that’s what you get with a voting system. No, a voting system does not mean that “I picked these 6 maps, so this is the mappool for coming season”.
People pick maps they think are fun to play or where they (as a team) are the strongest on. This is a logical approach to picking maps. The ‘fun-to-play’ element shows clearly in the poll, with granary coming in third quite a bit behind.
Personally, I did not vote for badlands and granary, purely because I want to play something else. I’d like to get more PCWs on (for example) gravelpit, freight. But since mixes are generally bad at maps that aren’t played 24/7, were stuck with the same old maps, creating a vicious spiral. And I also know no-one is going to read this and simply disagrees unfounded without any backing whatsoever. So how about showing that it’s going to be like that hmmm?:)
It it just me or does it seem strange that in a game as diverse as TF2, there’s only one map in the entire competitive map pool that’s actually enjoyable?
Quoted from JOHNNYJACKAL
Also I laugh at all the haters, democracy is a bitch?
Please tell me how, exactly, this poll represents the runnings of a day-to-day democracy? As I have experienced democracy, one elects people with an expertise in a specific area to make decisions that voters simply do not have the time, intellect or skill to accurately make for themselves. If democratic civilisation functioned in the same way as etf2l’s democracy (you know, the one where any delinquent who knows absolutely nothing about competitive tf2 but happens to have an account registered has as equal say on the matter as someone who has played it for 4 years at the highest level) do you really think democratic nations would be the way they are now? Suppose this is the real world and the question is not “which maps should be in the pool?” but instead “How do we solve the economic crisis?”. I can’t speak about other countries, but I know the vast, vast, vast, VAST majority of Britains have absolutely no clue as to the functioning of an economic system, in the same way that the majority of ETF2L voters simply do not know what a map needs to function well in 6v6 long-term. I would literally shit my pants if the british public suddenly were the soul determining factor in important decision making.
I’m not saying these systems are perfect or even particularly good (many are not), but you cannot defend etf2l’s method with the blanket statement “democracy”, as that word comes laden with associations with things that it simply does not resemble in any half-decent practice.
The truth is there are very few, if any, real decisions made on a purely democratic basis (or at least, a directly democratic basis). The ones that are and were tend to have fucking awful consequences. Just ask socrates.
Last edited by kaidus,
Quoted from kaidus
[…]
Please tell me how, exactly, this poll represents the runnings of a day-to-day democracy? As I have experienced democracy, one elects people with an expertise in a specific area to make decisions that voters simply do not have the time, intellect or skill to accurately make for themselves. If democratic civilisation functioned in the same way as etf2l’s democracy (you know, the one where any delinquent who knows absolutely nothing about competitive tf2 but happens to have an account registered has as equal say on the matter as someone who has played it for 4 years at the highest level) do you really think democratic nations would be the way they are now? Suppose this is the real world and the question is not “which maps should be in the pool?” but instead “How do we solve the economic crisis?”. I can’t speak about other countries, but I know the vast, vast, vast, VAST majority of Britains have absolutely no clue as to the functioning of an economic system, in the same way that the majority of ETF2L voters simply do not know what a map needs to function well in 6v6 long-term. I would literally shit my pants if the british public suddenly were the soul determining factor in important decision making.
I’m not saying these systems are perfect or even particularly good (many are not), but you cannot defend etf2l’s method with the blanket statement “democracy”, as that word comes laden with associations with things that it simply does not resemble in any half-decent practice.
The truth is there are very few, if any, real decisions made on a purely democratic basis (or at least, a directly democratic basis). The ones that are and were tend to have fucking awful consequences. Just ask socrates.
Truer words have never been spoken.
Quoted from Monkeh
[…]
I voted for freight, mostly because I didn’t want to play turbine, but also because it’s one of those maps where you can ‘offclass’ for roll-out, snipers and heavies both utilised succesfully.
Also:
[…]Says The Original Mr. “Seriously….fuck freight”!
Wow.
That was before someone had the bright idea to let me off class on freight! :D
Quoted from kaidus
[…]
Please tell me how, exactly, this poll represents the runnings of a day-to-day democracy? As I have experienced democracy, one elects people with an expertise in a specific area to make decisions that voters simply do not have the time, intellect or skill to accurately make for themselves. If democratic civilisation functioned in the same way as etf2l’s democracy (you know, the one where any delinquent who knows absolutely nothing about competitive tf2 but happens to have an account registered has as equal say on the matter as someone who has played it for 4 years at the highest level) do you really think democratic nations would be the way they are now? Suppose this is the real world and the question is not “which maps should be in the pool?” but instead “How do we solve the economic crisis?”. I can’t speak about other countries, but I know the vast, vast, vast, VAST majority of Britains have absolutely no clue as to the functioning of an economic system, in the same way that the majority of ETF2L voters simply do not know what a map needs to function well in 6v6 long-term. I would literally shit my pants if the british public suddenly were the soul determining factor in important decision making.
I’m not saying these systems are perfect or even particularly good (many are not), but you cannot defend etf2l’s method with the blanket statement “democracy”, as that word comes laden with associations with things that it simply does not resemble in any half-decent practice.
The truth is there are very few, if any, real decisions made on a purely democratic basis (or at least, a directly democratic basis). The ones that are and were tend to have fucking awful consequences. Just ask socrates.
To be fair, Socrates _was_ kinda asking for it ^_^
But seriously, this is maybe THE best post on this forums since ever. I wish every admin and every player would read this and understand. well played, sir.
Last edited by Tehgnarr,
rolled by kaidus
But in all seriousness, there is an objective method to classifying maps in this game. Even if the map might be “fun” to you, if the map does not mesh well with 6v6 play, you shouldn’t be voting for it to be played. The NA scene deals with maps similarly (with a vote) and the frustrations become apparent pretty early in the process. I realize it might sound egotistical, but when a map gets voted in primarily by hundreds of people who are clueless about in-game play, upper-echelon players want to rip their hair out. Playing a bad map at a high level is unbelievably unenjoyable; bad maps show their true inefficiency at a high level and it becomes a joke to the players at that level who treat this game as a second job to have to dedicate their time to a fundamentally flawed map.
And obviously this has been mentioned umpteen times, but the foundry idea is just silly. If anything, the most popular map should be the automatic tie-breaker.
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