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[Community] - Your thoughts please!
Created 11th July 2010 @ 18:17
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How unlocks are balanced has no bearing on the running of the community at all. If you’re discussing whether they should be allowed, that’s a different matter, but again this has been discussed to death before.
Having said that I think the players could have more say in certain decisions such as allowed weapons. If div 1 players can hold a “gentleman’s agreement” only to use vanilla + kritz in div 1, I don’t see why some teams should be disallowed from using unlocks as long as both teams agree to it.
Perhaps have a checklist of allowed weapons on the match page, and teams can tick weapons they don’t mind being used. If both teams tick a weapon, then it should be allowed. If one team doesn’t tick anything out of laziness etc, then standard rules will be applied.
Again this requires coding so is probably not possible to do right now, but could be considered for the future.
Another thing I think players should be consulted on is map choice. We have all these polls which show what maps people want to play yet some totally arbitrary choice is made by the admins. Coldfront wasn’t so bad at the end of the day but I’d much rather have had Viaduct in there, and the polls at the beginning of the season showed that.
Oh come now, I’ve seen many a level 3 at last points, I’ve even seen you get a level 3 at last Tik. Spy is ofc an option but taking down the gun/engy means the medic escapes, which means it’s a 5v5 push and you really haven’t gained anything.
Also the engy can be quite far from the gun too, so that makes spies lifes harder. It’s one or the other, gun or man, engy has his back to a wall and hey presto, you’re pushing 6v5 with another gun going up as you push.
I like Kuma’s unlocks idea, always thought it was silly to go vanilla just for division 1’s sake – when they don’t have to use them if they don’t want to.
Quoted from kuma
If div 1 players can hold a “gentleman’s agreement” only to use vanilla + kritz in div 1, I don’t see why some teams should be disallowed from using unlocks as long as both teams agree to it.
Perhaps have a checklist of allowed weapons on the match page, and teams can tick weapons they don’t mind being used. If both teams tick a weapon, then it should be allowed. If one team doesn’t tick anything out of laziness etc, then standard rules will be applied.
+1
if the ng is far away from the sentry and has his back to the wall, who cares about taking him down, sap the sentry and it’ll go down. if not, the ng either has to try and kill the spy, in which case the sg is going down, or he’s got to take the sapper off, in which case the spy can take him down. during that chaos there’s spam being fired at the sg to get it down quicker, as one simple callfrom the spy can sort that, during which time the spy could leave the ng and sg and try and take something else down.
running the spy when attacking last can cause alot of chaos with people having to check behind them as well as manage spam from ahead.
There’s also not many maps that allow a sentry to cover multiple areas without being open to easy spam, but even if it is covering one entrance/exit, it does less damage and runs out of ammo fast, so all the other team needs to do is use the sentry for a faster way to get uber charge.
i don’t like playing against a sentry tbh, but i can see positive points as well as negitive ones to using it, and the main issue people will probably have against it is that they aren’t used to it and don’t know how to properly counter it…… yet.
Quoted from kuma
If div 1 players can hold a “gentleman’s agreement” only to use vanilla + kritz in div 1, I don’t see why some teams should be disallowed from using unlocks as long as both teams agree to it.
Not sure what league you’ve been playing in, but to my knowledge ETF2L has always allowed gentlemen’s agreements.
The weapon rules are just there to fall back on when teams can’t come to an agreement afaik.
…right?
Quoted from Spike Himself
Not sure what league you’ve been playing in, but to my knowledge ETF2L has always allowed gentlemen’s agreements.
The weapon rules are just there to fall back on when teams can’t come to an agreement afaik.
The “gentlemen’s agreement” in div1 is agreeing to effectively ban weapons that are currently allowed. This is fine and consistent with ETF2L rules. Using weapons that are banned and therefore prohibited in ETF2L is against the rules, no matter whether the teams agree on it or not because it’s a standard imposed by ETF2L.
Under the current ruleset you could probably get away with playing a match that nobody is speccing with banned weapons if your opponents agree; that isn’t to say that your opponents might not just turn around and report you at the end of the game and at any rate you’d be risking punishment if you were found out.
Agreements will not work, to allow weapons that are banned by default, the other clan will nearly always say NO.
Agreements can only work the other way to not use weapons that are allowed.
So unless by default nearly all the weapons are allowed, allowing agreements to use banned weapons is still a ban
Quoted from Tikcus
Agreements will not work, to allow weapons that are banned by default, the other clan will nearly always say NO.
Agreements can only work the other way to not use weapons that are allowed.
So unless by default nearly all the weapons are allowed, allowing agreements to use banned weapons is still a ban
The point is to let teams decide on a match by match basis.
Well, if they almost always say no then the majority don’t want to play with these weapons and the ban should stay.
The agreements thing I mentioned earlier is more of an exception for cases where both teams want to use different unlocks. In these cases it wouldn’t make sense to keep these weapons banned, and doing so doesn’t benefit anybody.
And yes, it would require a rule change but I see no downsides to doing this unless someone can enlighten me? Nobody loses anything from it and in most cases the standard rules will probably be played. It just opens up options for people who actually want to use unlocks, and will cut down on the whine.
Quoted from kuma
If div 1 players can hold a “gentleman’s agreement” only to use vanilla + kritz in div 1, I don’t see why some teams should be disallowed from using unlocks as long as both teams agree to it.
There is no ‘gentleman’s agreement’, and ETF2L don’t cater for div1. Afaik, every banned unlock underwent a poll in which the majority wanted it banned.
Honest question here – do you honestly think every single div1 team communicate with each other well and agree on every unlock?
Quoted from kuma
Well, if they almost always say no then the majority don’t want to play with these weapons and the ban should stay.
You really think 1 clan will allow another to use a weapon they ask to use?
Bollocks they will instantly ban it, thinking the other team has a plan to use it so we get an advantage from using it.
If the majority don’t want them, allow all, then let them agree to ban them, since using your argument if the majority want them banned their would be no issue
The agreements thing I mentioned earlier is more of an exception for cases where both teams want to use different unlocks. In these cases it wouldn’t make sense to keep these weapons banned, and doing so doesn’t benefit anybody.
We played a ladder match not so long ago, where the other team asked if they could use the pain train, we said yes straight away, then asked if we could use gun boats, they said no as they had not practiced with them…..
If they are banned by default THEY WILL never get used, how can you not see this.
Allow all unlocks, then let teams reach an agreement if they want unlocks banned. It will not work the other way around.
I also believe individual unlocks should not be discussed, no agreement will ever be made, should simply be, an agreement to use
1, No unlocks
2, Pre war update
3, All valve unlocks
4, All unlocks
Quoted from Shintaz
[…]
There is no ‘gentleman’s agreement’, and ETF2L don’t cater for div1. Afaik, every banned unlock underwent a poll in which the majority wanted it banned.
Honest question here – do you honestly think every single div1 team communicate with each other well and agree on every unlock?
I really don’t know, I heard it a while back and I never see unlocks used in div matches.
What would other teams say then if you went ahead and used a natascha etc?
Quoted from Shintaz
There is no ‘gentleman’s agreement’, and ETF2L don’t cater for div1. Afaik, every banned unlock underwent a poll in which the majority wanted it banned.
Ermmmmmm…… http://etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-8488/?recent=140326
And: Quoted from kuma
I really don’t know, I heard it a while back and I never see unlocks used in div matches.
What would other teams say then if you went ahead and used a natascha etc?
I’ve seen Nat being used in a Div1 match last season, cant remember who or when, but it definitely happened.
Edit: Think it was FB Vs someone on Turbine….?
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