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TF2 Sapphire challenge @ Esports Heaven
Created 4th March 2010 @ 11:28
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Quoted from Pyle
@ Kaidus: Maybe they should place all div 1 / top div 2 teams further up the ladder so their first match for example will be in round 3. This might create more equal matches at the start of the tournament and more fun for everyone maybe ?
Except for doing that would defeat the purpose of a tournament.
If it makes the tournament more exciting and worth to play for everyone, why not ? The more smiles, the better the tournament.
Last edited by Pyle,
or you can do the hattrick system, the highest rated team vs the lowest rated team. Personally i prefer the english system. Every team can play against everyone.
Quoted from Pyle
If it makes the tournament more exciting and worth to play for everyone, why not ? The more smiles, the better the tournament.
I agree, but it defeats the point — your suggestion is that the top teams are determined before the tournament, but that defeats the point of the tournament, and biases it.
Last edited by octochris,
Ill keep it short, it would improve the quality of a tournament for everyone. And if something is good for everyone, why not do it ? That it defeats the purpose of a tournament is no good reason imo. It’s still a tournament with this implemented, only a tournament with better chanses of getting equal matches. Does it defeat the purpose of a tournament because it would be unfair ? NO. the way it happens now is more unfair imo. unfair for the good teams to waste their precious time and unfair for the lower teams to get raped in 8 minutes.
But, just an opinion.
Quoted from octochris
[…]
I agree, but it defeats the point — your suggestion is that the top teams are determined before the tournament, but that defeats the point of the tournament, and biases it.
Maybe the etf2l divisions are here to determine this ? And not the tournament itself ? And what point do you want the tournament to make really ? For me, its all fun.
Quoted from Pyle
[…]
Maybe the etf2l divisions are here to determine this ? And not the tournament itself ? And what point do you want the tournament to make really ? For me, its all fun.
This is ESH, not ETF2L. Why teams should be determined by their ranking in an unrelated league is beyond me.
What point do I want the tournement to serve? It is supposed to be about finding out which team is the best at that point in time, and have fun along the way, surely?
Quoted from Pyle
Ill keep it short, it would improve the quality of a tournament for everyone.
Son, here’s a free lesson you’ll have a lotta use for in life: On yourself, you know nobody.
If you look passed your point of the “fairness” of played matches (which is in fact highly arguable), there’s another thing important with the current system: It allows for a rate of increasingly more interesting matches to spectate, with the better and better teams meeting each other. And if you look at the numbers of spectators, i’d say that’s quite an important area of focus.
Quoted from octochris
[…]
This is ESH, not ETF2L. Why teams should be determined by their ranking in an unrelated league is beyond me.
The ESH TF2 Admin team is made up of 3-4 Admins from ETF2L, since they approached us and asked for our help to run the tournaments. We use our knowledge from ETF2L, similar rulesets, configs etc, to allow us to run the best tournaments we possibly can.
Looking at some of the comments above, I can answer that in all of the ESH tournaments so far the best teams have been seeded. To give you an idea of how many teams we seed, here’s a quick break-down.
16 Team Tournament – 8 Seeds
32 Team Tournament – 16 Seeds
64 Team Tournament – 32 Seeds
128 Team Tournament – 32 Seeds again.
The teams are seeded based on their skill level and current form, to the best of our abilities. 128 Team Tournaments give lower skilled teams a chance to progress further and get a few upsets since there will be 32 matches in the first round which have no seed in at all.
The seeding system is quite clearly in place to stop all of the Division 1 teams playing each other in the first round. This is not how a prize tournament works. See Wimbledon for a prime example of this :)
As for the actual number of the teams in the tournament, this is decided by ESH themselves. We were told they wanted to run a 128 team tournament with a cash prize, so we set it up and admin it.
If this tournament does not fill up and ESH withdraw their support for TF2 in the future, you only have yourselves to blame.
I agree with Gomer, it shouldn’t be seeded. If there were prizes for more than just first place then I would say it should. It makes it more interesting if it isn’t seeded. This is why the English FA Cup is so exciting because you get good close games and surprises throughout the tournament.
On the first night of the cup we always play 3 teams who we destroy, I imagine this isn’t fun for them because it certainly isn’t for me. Beating a team 5-0 after 10 minutes then having to wait around for half an hour is boring.
In the end whether it’s seeded or not doesn’t make an ounce of difference to the outcome when there is only a prize for first as the best team on the day always wins.
Last edited by Evil,
Quoted from Evil
In the end whether it’s seeded or not doesn’t make an ounce of difference to the outcome when there is only a prize for first as the best team on the day always wins.
Quoted from Evil
In the end whether it’s seeded or not doesn’t make an ounce of difference to the outcome when there is only a prize for first as dignitas always wins.
a fun game of spot the difference
Quoted from torden
[…]
Son, here’s a free lesson you’ll have a lotta use for in life: On yourself, you know nobody.
If you look passed your point of the “fairness” of played matches (which is in fact highly arguable), there’s another thing important with the current system: It allows for a rate of increasingly more interesting matches to spectate, with the better and better teams meeting each other. And if you look at the numbers of spectators, i’d say that’s quite an important area of focus.
All I’m saying is that the problem of good teams wasting their time and lesser teams getting raped in 10 minutes would be minimized. And thats the only thing I’m trying to point out here. And if you look passed your point of the increasingly interesting matches to specate; like predetermine the top teams would undo this ? The more exciting a match is the more watchable it is imo. Because I personally believe that the more equal both teams are, the more exciting the match will be to specate. Thanks for the free lesson though and please don’t kill me for thinking out loud because thats all I’m doing here..
Last edited by Pyle,
Quoted from octochris
[…]
[…]
a fun game of spot the difference
idk? and TCM want a word concerning their results against Diggy the past 2 cups. ;)
Quoted from Evil
It makes it more interesting if it isn’t seeded. This is why the English FA Cup is so exciting because you get good close games and surprises throughout the tournament.
That was what I tried to say about ETF2L’s 5th cup, but it was lost in rage posts from narrow sighted individuals.
For a tournament with a cash prize though, I do not think that system is appropriate. Many eyes are on the semi finals and the final, and I for one would be rather disappointed if the final was something like PHX vs TCM (no offence to PHX!), just because the draw and results had gone in their favour. It would be a real waste of a showpiece match.
Perhaps if people actually sign their teams up and support the ESH tournaments, we can ask them to consider adding a prize for 2nd or 3rd place too in the future. I will re-emphasise the point though… if the cups do not get filled, they won’t last forever.
Quoted from d2m
…I for one would be rather disappointed if the final was something like PHX vs TCM (no offence to PHX!)
Oi! what just happened? Is this because CantFitMyN have dropped for the season? ;)
I agree totally that seeding is required so that appropriately levelled teams meet each other at the various stages of the contest. This ensures that a rogue div 3 team (say Vertex ;) ) manages to succeed on a path that doesn’t contain the div 1 teams. In all but the rarest of occasions the top seeded 32 teams should be in the final 32 stages of the competition.
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