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enemydown TF2 ladder!
Created 27th May 2011 @ 13:29
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Yeah that’s the plan, any support i can get regarding administration would be truly excellent, do add me on steam if anyone reading this is interested.
I hope this doesn’t come across the wrong way, I don’t mean it offensively, I’m just pointing it out. I don’t think anyone knows who you are, you’ve not even been registered on ETF2L for 3 weeks, and you’re proposing that swathes of people start using ED TF2 ladder, even though we actually moved to ETF2L years ago?
And secondly, ETF2L actually does have a ladder, but it didn’t get used much when it started and it’s bassically dead now. Plus we actually have plans in the works to update it completely with new rules, a new system and new admins.
Anyways, as I say, I’m not trying to be a dick, anyone in this community wanting to put in the work to get something done is great, I just don’t see where you’re going with it.
You’re able to play in multiple leagues – don’t get all defensive because people MIGHT decide to play in enemydown ASWELL as ETF2L.
Why would it matter how long i’ve been registered to ETF2L, that shouldn’t – and won’t – change a thing about whether this ladder will work or not.
What i’m trying to do it get ED up and running again. I think it could be taken seriously, or even seen as practice for your team’s ETF2L season matches.
I think if we got this going together, rather then trying to fight it, it could be a great alternative to what we currently have. It could put life into the EU side of TF2
Ladders won’t work unless you have a seriously easy way of getting people to play them. Easier than say, going on IRC where everyone is anyway and advertising a game, then getting one in about 30 seconds at peak times.
I believe ladders have been dead for a good while – for a reason, I don’t see the idea of trying to force them back to life, where all this effort could go into a different area that will give you a bigger affect and influence.
IRC wars are called “mixes” for a reason – they’re not competitive and most of the time, you play against a mixture of random people who’ve never met before but know you through a friend of a friend of a friend.
Ladders are a way for play real wars against real teams, quickly. You can put your match up and within 10 minutes you can have a match scheduled for half an hour later.
I don’t think IRC wars are a big practice for what you’d really be facing in any sort of division on a major team based game like this, but i do however see your point, ladders need to be ran properly, and I think they seem to die because leagues like ETF2L forget about them and focus on the seasons, which is understandable, however this ladder, with the right support, will not flop.
Thanks for your comment.
Quoted from Crown
I think if we got this going together, rather then trying to fight it, it could be a great alternative to what we currently have. It could put life into the EU side of TF2
See this is what I was politely trying to say in my previous post, you don’t have any concept of what is actually going in the scene right now because you’ve not even been here for 3 weeks. The reason I said about how long you’ve been registered on ETF2L for, is that it’s usually a good measure of how long someone has been been following competitive TF2. The scene right now is positively thriving, but as it is, people won’t even sign up to 2 leagues (ESL and TF2) at the minute, and they can’t even be arsed playing ETF2L’s own ladder, why do you think that it’s a good idea to put in a great deal of work getting something that people don’t even want?
To be fair Skyride. ETF2L does not have a ladder. Its old one is defunct and has stopped signups and it’s been planning a new one since last year from what I can see. Just because you’re planning to have something doesn’t make it real. Like, I’m planning to be a millionaire. It’s in the planning stages. So am I in fact a millionaire. No.
I don’t want to get all dickey about it because when I chatted to you in person at i42 you came across as a good lad and Dan said you do stuff for the community like host mumbles for people to use and the such. Crown is trying something. There is a potential gap in the “market” he’s trying to fill. From a new persons point of view, it seems like the old guard don’t want anything to change so they can keep it how they like it. Which is why 1.6 died (unless you’re in a pro team) DODS died, and is why CSS is on its knees. People need to get behind things otherwise it’s pointless in playing organised and everyone should just play 32 man public servers.
Last edited by Coleman,
Quoted from Crown
IRC wars are called “mixes” for a reason – they’re not competitive and most of the time, you play against a mixture of random people who’ve never met before but know you through a friend of a friend of a friend.
Ladders are a way for play real wars against real teams, quickly. You can put your match up and within 10 minutes you can have a match scheduled for half an hour later.
I don’t think IRC wars are a big practice for what you’d really be facing in any sort of division on a major team based game like this, but i do however see your point, ladders need to be ran properly, and I think they seem to die because leagues like ETF2L forget about them and focus on the seasons, which is understandable, however this ladder, with the right support, will not flop.
Thanks for your comment.
Again, you just demonstrated than you are coming from another scene, and have literally no understanding of how things in work in TF2. Every single team below div1, just gets games in #tf.wars on quakenet. They’re not called “mixes”, a mix is a mix, just getting a game is getting a game. “mid” does not encompass 80% of the community in TF2. We just say “div1/2/6” etc, and people know exactly what skill you are, even if its a mix.
Quoted from Coleman
ETF2L does not have a ladder.
Nor does ED from what I read ;)
Anyway, I’m not here to try and compete with your ladder. In fact I wish you good luck with it. However skyride makes a fair point; you seem to be clueless in regards to what is happening in the scene at the moment. Also, the reason ETF2L’s ladder slowly died is largely due to the fact people don’t care about ladder play, and it’s simply easier to get games on IRC. If you’re looking for a hole in the market, that is what you need to address. Once again, good luck.
Last edited by Spike Himself,
I’ve actually never played against a full team in and IRC mix before, i’m speaking from experience from the #tf2.wars here, so if you want to give me proof that IRC mixes are better practice then playing in a ladder where you can schedule matches against whoever and whenever you want, then go ahead, but before you do that, i’d like you to consider for at least a second that this ladder could go ahead and actually help people practice and help people get better at the game for pre-season and mid-season play, but if you’re still complacent that this is an awful idea which would not work and would not be backed at all, then be my guest and carry on.
Quoted from Spike Himself
[…]
Nor does ED from what I read ;)
That’s the point. So let Crown try. Support him, advice him, send him some cookies in the post and keep posting. Because the more people that read the more likely it is that this ladder will go ahead. You know what, if it fails. Oh well, back to the status quo. No harm, no foul.
Yea I need to agree with skyride.
Below div2 (i cant speak for div3 since we skipped it), you could just go on IRC and get a game and search for teams only, specific division and you would get what you wanted in the majority of cases.
Its only now that we have to arrange games in advance as there is far fewer teams in divs 1 and 2. So in that sense I don’t think it would work in lower divs. In theory higher divs are suited to a ladder system, but I just have a feeling(read: I know) nobody would join it.
So yes I see where the competitive element is coming from in a ladder. but at the same time there is ETF2L, Wireplay and ESL all running, and usually not all at the same time, so when one isn’t on, the other is, so we can get our competitive kicks that way.
Ladders are fun for about a month… then people cba im sure lower div teams would enjoy it to get more serious games on a regular basis.. but higher teams tend to find it a hassle.
tbh etf2l provides a good ladder system anyway.
Quoted from Coleman
To be fair Skyride. ETF2L does not have a ladder. Its old one is defunct and has stopped signups and it’s been planning a new one since last year from what I can see. Just because you’re planning to have something doesn’t make it real. Like, I’m planning to be a millionaire. It’s in the planning stages. So am I in fact a millionaire. No.
I’m not planning it though. :P I’m not a member of ETF2L’s admin staff, I never have been and plan never to be so for exactly some of the reasons you’re suggesting. :P
I don’t want to get all dickey about it because when I chatted to you in person at i42 you came across as a good lad and Dan said you do stuff for the community like host mumbles for people to use and the such. Crown is trying something. There is a potential gap in the “market” he’s trying to fill.
Ye, totally dude, I’m not being a dick either, it’s just sometimes you can’t help but come across that way when people are wrong about things. :(
I know what you’re saying, People trying things is great, I’m just telling you guys now, this isn’t something worth trying because 1) It’s not something that a lot of people want, and 2) I have solid insider info that a better alternative is already well on the way to getting done. If you look at the post SpikeHimself linked, it’s a proposal he made about the ladder, the reason he is an ETF2L admin now, is because he specifically applied so that he could go and do all the things he suggested in that post. Sorry if it seems a little confusing.
From a new persons point of view, it seems like the old guard don’t want anything to change so they can keep it how they like it. Which is why 1.6 died (unless you’re in a pro team) DODS died, and is why CSS is on its knees. People need to get behind things otherwise it’s pointless in playing organised and everyone should just play 32 man public servers.
Yep, totally, this is a serious problem at the moment. However if you want to see it in effect, go look at the Vods of the ESL nations Cup match from last night of USA vs Finland (Spoiler: Finland got facerolled despite being probably the better team because they couldn’t be arsed playing). Me suggesting that trying to breath life into a site we as a community left years ago for some very good reasons is a bad idea, is just trying to give some friendly advice. :P
Crown, if you want to help out, you’d be better trying to speak to SpikeHimself on IRC and asking about helping out with ETF2L’s new ladder that’s in the works.
(Unfortunately I know I look like a dick for posts in this thread, I hate when that happens, but you’ve got to trust me on this. :( )
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