Community initiatives, rule and admin changes, player bans
March 8, 2010
Pushing the community forward
Our partnership with EsportsHeaven continues with the 128 team Sapphire Challenge with €500 up for grabs.
While that partnership is strong, it is also a growing one, and we still need your support and participation. So, if you’re able to play on the evening of the 15th of March, make sure you sign-up today!
We’re also very excited to tell you about an upcoming Highlander tournament we’ll be hosting in association with Valve and TF2Lobby for new to competitive play teams. Expect details about how this involves you in the coming week!
Also make sure to check out the second episode of The Direct Hit podcast, “Who the hell decided to go valley?”, where the team takes a look at what’s wrong with competitive TF2 and how we can put a positive spin on it.
Rule changes with immediate effect
- In response to the awesome Fraglander frag movie by
Sammage, we have been forced to rule that the kind of turning scripts demonstrated in his video will be banned in ETF2L play. - After a number of issues with pauses in matches recently, in both ETF2L and the ESH cups, we are changing the pause rule to the following
Teams may request a pause at any time during a match. Reasons for pausing include:
– Player drop
– Server problems
– Your game is unplayable due to network issuesIf you need to pause, you must clearly request a pause and give a reason for it (for example: “Pause please, player drop”).
The other team is then, by rule, expected to pause on behalf of their opponents in a sensible and sportsmanlike manner. They must pause at the first appropriate time.
Teams should use their common sense about what an appropriate time to pause is. Try your best not to pause when major engagements are taking place. You should pause within 15 seconds of being asked.
If a complaint is made that a team was either abusing the ability to request pauses to gain an unsportsmanlike advantage, or a team failed to fairly pause or took excessive time to do so after being clearly requested to pause, the admin team will review the supplied SourceTV demo and assess penalties on a case-by-case basis. Penalties include minor warning accompanied with the forfeit of the round in question, or, in extreme cases, major warning and forfeit of the map.
A team is only expected to pause on behalf of the other team once per map. After the first pause has been used, it is up to the other team whether and when to pause or not.
A pause cannot last more than 5 minutes. After 5 minutes have passed, the other team is free to unpause the game without the other team’s agreement, as long as they let the other team know that they are about to unpause. We advise teams to use the 5 minutes wisely: sort out whatever problem you have and arrange a sub from your roster in case the problem cannot be fixed.
You may not unpause the game under any circumstances without giving proper warning to the other team.
- Following the results of the Obscure poll, cp_obscure_rc2 will be used in all future games until further notice.
- Please also note that several teams have fallen foul of the rule regarding the use of mercs. You must have the other team’s permission to use a merc, and all mercs must be registered with ETF2L. It is your responsibility to check this, not the other team’s. There will be no exceptions.We also advise, as always, that you get your opponent to agree to allowing your merc on the relevant match page. It’s also a good idea to screenshot their agreement (if it’s agreed in-game or through Steam chat/IRC) too.
Changes to the admin team
We regret to announce that we’re removing long-time volunteers 
Amonsilas and 
Weqo from the admin team due to inactivity. We thank them for their services to the community and wish them good luck with their future plans.
We have also taken the decision to relieve 
Anakin from his role in the anti-cheat team. An unfortunate conflict of interest has arisen with his position as ESL admin, and it was, in our estimation, effecting his performance in his duties with ETF2L. We are very grateful for his hard work and wish him all the best with regards to future ventures.
Following Anakin’s removal, the anti-cheat team is seriously understaffed. We are in the final stages of approving new members, who we hope will formally join the team within the next few days.
In response to allegations against anti-cheat team
Following an internal review between the head admins, anti-cheat and league staff, we have decided to uphold the anti-cheat team’s decision regarding Quad’s ban, as detailed on February the 8th. They have fully explained their decision and they have the full support of the head admins.
Due to the seriousness of the allegations made against the anti-cheat team, we have taken the decision to make an exception in publishing details of our anti-cheat team’s report.
Ticks 3000-4000: Unusual movement, microadjustments of crosshair.
4400, 5600, 5950, 6700: Kills with unusual crosshair movements and patterns.
5100, 5800: Also potentially suspicious kills
Please keep in mind that we do not release this kind of information for a reason. While these instances may look innocuous to you, it is the judgement of our anti-cheat experts that they constitute evidence of cheating.
Considering Gryzor’s behaviour towards our league and exercising his personal vendettas against certain members of our staff in the name of “improving” our community, it’s difficult to take his word seriously. Nevertheless, be assured that we took the allegations he made against our league very seriously.
For those reasons, however, and his leak of confidential admin information that he obtained through his previous role as ETF2L staff, we have taken the decision to exclude him from our community for a year.
It’s very important to us that our admins, people in positions of trust, do not abuse their role. Any admin, past or present, caught leaking information will be subject to the same penalty.
Player bans
Gryzor – Leaking confidential admin information – 1 year ban
Hastaloe – Speedhack – 1 year ban
Posted by 
content rss
A bug makes the game better -> ban it plzz
What up now Swedes, WHOOOOOOOO!
bb gryzor, nobody will miss u :D
lol, another speedhacker
how dumb do you have to be
great news :), and idd lol@speedhack ¬_¬
no more targe?
rej folding gg
:(
same.
i mean, if you get cought like this you really deserve a permaban..this is just retarded
d2m just trying to nerf other teams in his division in order to get to div2 next season. CORRUPTION RIGHT THERE
Gryzor…nab!
What up now Swedes, WHOOOOOOOO!
srsly, how can u ban gryzor?!
this is just bs. can noone take the critism or what?
ridiculous.
Yep that was the reason he was banned criticism! Not like the etf2l admin team gets criticised pretty much all the time or anything!
What up now Swedes, WHOOOOOOOO!
In what demo can I find those ticks mentioned in the article?
So Gryzor gets banned for releasing confidential info yet Byte did the same thing at LAN and is still league admin?
So hypocritical it’s hilarious.
The ban on Gryzor is in my eyes ridiculous, he made a point and a strong one to, better take control over the community soon or there will not be any etf2l left soon.
Best regards Pedman
The difference is gryzor is a bitter fuck with a personal vendetta versus anyone he sees as an enemy in his alcohol fueled psychosis. I doubt Byte had any malicious intent when he made his mistake.
That news post Gryzor wrote had no personal vendetta, he made it to make a point about the AC team and a valid one at that.
Byte on the other hand started showing stuff at LAN just to show off in front of players which IMO is worse.
“POTENTIALLY SUSPICIOUS kills” …. you have no the right to ban someone with a “potentially” proof .. very well Authoritarian way !
(dm2 think to unban my account on etf2l if you dont want to cry because i got multi account , you told me one week , its now 10 days )
bb
welcome back Frenchies , anakin your daddeh isnt here anymore :>
gj admins
You Gryzor haters can’t argue the issues so you gotta make personal attacks…
Nice analysis by the AC team… “potentially suspicious kills” ……………………….
Noreille, contact me on IRC in #etf2l :)
“Also potentially suspicious kills” xDxDxDxDxDxDxDxDxDxDxDxDxDxDxDxDxDxD
What a shame. The other bans as well proven as this? Or it’s a joke? Trust us, because we are professionals! P A T H E T I C!
“Finally, it’s not that I don’t care. If I felt you were banned unfairly, I’d be on your side and helping you fight your case.” – D2M.
Well, how about now?
As CL of ex. I’m feel that I’m going to have to make a statement on this matter since it directly effects one of my members. The decision has been made to save face of the AC-Team all two of them. We’ve as requested sent etf2l another demo in of quad playing. Obviously because it showed nothing out of the ordinary they’ve decided to use the old one as proof and have no upheld the ban. Its a simple of cas of one hand not talking to the other since D2M didn’t know that it had happened. As an aside Vertex has been pulled out of wptf2l due to the fact they refused to ban quad from the evidence provided.
In regard to the demo the decision is unwise due to in being gryzors settings and not that of quad. Anyone who has watched the demo will find that your config is completely screwed up by the demo and your forced to remap all your keys. Also I must voice that you do not know if there are any communications between quad and other players on the server. Since its been taken from spectate any coms would be edited out.
This entire debackle has completed scewed up our preparations for this season, the problem I face is that I have players who are so dissolutioned with the whole thing that they wish to pull out of etf2l. This is a decision I’m not prepared to make at this time, but I do feel that that the decision should have been based on the demo sent in and not the one gryzor forced through the ban on.
Since there is no appeal process in place we are forced to accept the decision have teams who play against us make false accusations of hacking. I will say this Quad is to remain a member of our team unless he wishes to leave. Its a shame that Gryzor took this action against one of our players since it leaves us like the admin team completely disjointed. I have requested that non of ex. comment on this however its left upto them if they do so or not, I’m left disappointed and with a team potentially on the verge of folding. Changes need to be made too the current system or etf2l will find that it will lose the prestige it has enjoyed for so long.
Jarate Kid
aka Sirrus
Executive Orders
Clan Leader
[…] att behålla avstängningen. Man har till och med gått så långt som att för ovanlighetens publicera delar av bevisläggningen i form av en serie ticks. Bevisföring som starkt avvisas av Gryzor själv, som menar att ligan […]
Ahh another mature and insightful comment from you on a newspost bunfi, this was a happy surprise. However I’ll entertain it with a comment, since I know you’re salivating and pressing F5 repeatedly…
I don’t believe he was banned unfairly. I’ve seen the comments from all of the AC admins that watched the demo, plus also myself and Byte who are both ex-AC admins. I agree with the ticks mentioned and the issues that have been raised by our staff, and I stand behind our decision to ban quad.
The problem you have is that you’re blindly accepting that a player is innocent, based on an article written by someone who has been following insane personal vendettas against two of the head admins in our league for many months now. Don’t let words which were clearly designed to cause harm to the league and attempt to defame our AC team into being a useless group of people harm your judgement.
This is completely untrue and you have misinterpreted why we left WPTF2L. Our leaving had nothing whatsoever to do with quad. We left because we didn’t like the fact that we had to play both stripclub and horizon who both had banned players from ETF2L in their lineups. Additionally, we had personal issues in the team towards the league in that every game we had played was so badly arranged, on shit servers and just felt like we were wasting our time.
Simple as that mate. Not once did I mention quad to b0nes. I have full logs of my discussions with him should you really need to continue believing something that is not true.
Please don’t bring my team into a discussion that has absolutely nothing to do with them.
Gryzor could well be right. He could be the most intelligent person in the world and the best anti-cheat admin. It’s a little bit difficult to believe anything he says however when he’s so insanely desperate to disclaim Byte at any available opportunity. Personal vendetta doesn’t even cover it.
For those of you that have no real personal experience with Gryzor, there are text logs of him having IRC chats with a few of our lovely Finns, albeit a few years back in QW, including a comment along the lines of “I will phone your parents and explain to them why their son has to die for his actions” :D
That sound like the kind of responsible, mature, mentally stable person that should be influencing your opinions, or that should be an anti-cheat admin? I don’t really think so. He’s the epitome of letting personal feelings get in the way of an otherwise professional role.
“I don’t believe he was banned unfairly. I’ve seen the comments from all of the AC admins that watched the demo, plus also myself and Byte who are both ex-AC admins. I agree with the ticks mentioned and the issues that have been raised by our staff, and I stand behind our decision to ban quad.”
ETF2L, the bastion of impartiality and a fair trial.
This is kind of like the time when the UN nearly passed a resolution against religious criticism, only even sillier.
The problem I have with the demo is that everyone has seen it pre-conceptions have already been made. The way I personally would have done it would have given the admins the new demo. Requested that they looked for parts that were suspicious to them without giving specific places where you think its dodgy. Human nature dictates that we are like sheep, if you gave me a tick number said have a look at that do you think it looks dodgy? I’m going to want to look at it as dodgy my judgment is clouded by unintential pier pressure.
In regard to vertex pulling out of wireplay, that is purely of etf2ls own making cos they wont share evidence with that league. So you can’t expect admins of another league to ban someone just cos you said so. I’m not going to comment on this further since its a matter for Vertex and not myself.
D2M, is the “real” report from AC team about quad demo much more detailed? I would expect a decisive report to have a bit more information about what was unusual with the crosshair movement, and what made some kills suspicious.
I don’t really like the new pause rule, the previous one was easier to enforce and less prone to bickering from petty players.
Yes. Unfortunately we’re not going to sit and reveal every single thing in full detail – and we’re never going to as per the previous bans policy. The AC team will be changing though, and we have some ideas in place which will help to improve the clarity between the AC admins and the players in the future, whilst ensuring that the integrity of decisions are not compromised.
The summary in the news post above was taken from comments made between admins. I apologise if they were poorly worded, as some people have already latched onto today thinking they were superheroes.
I personally like the new rule, it means the likes of me with internet that hates me can have a chance at getting back into a round without our team getting rolled instantly.
thank fuck no one takes demos from me and sends them in, otherwise i might be banned and not be able to play here…. wait, i dont.
DEMO ME
…and I thought I was the one spouting out shit that makes me look like an idiot.
I’ve lost my faith in ETF2L, and i dont think im the only one – hopefully this will be noted in the near future.
Got to hand it to you – the biggest tf2 league in the world.
Without any real sponsors, its bound to fail at some point if its not runned by lets say Bill Gates.
Fail and GG.
I personally think ETF2L does a great job to keep this running. I ran a league before http://www.clans-united.eu and it is hard work. The scale of things is so bigger here and i can only praise the admins. Keep up the good work!
http://www.clans-united.net/ *
haha, there is 1 fail. Frenchies can’t be in anti-cheat team :D
Great job in banning Quad and Gryzor ETF2L. Was definitely the right decision :) Just ignore those whiners that have no idea what they are talking about.
I got to ask if quad was banned based only on the demo recorded on a public server that Gryzor sent in first.
What part of what Gryzor wrote is to be judged confidential?
I can’t put together your words with the final verdict.
If you just wrote “Gryzor – For being Gryzor – 1 year ban” It would make more sense to me. As it stands now it feels more like the article was the last straw and a fast and easy way to get back at him.
I don’t see the article in itself as something that damages etf2l as a whole but pointing out something that could be improved.
Also, if there is any truth in his statement that Byte was responsible for leaking demos I find it quite interesting to see if you will look on Bytes actions the same way and enforce the same penalty on him.
The only knowledge I have is what is written on “the net” and since both you guys at etf2l and Gryzor focus on where to do the most damage (like some of the comments on onlinegamer) in stead of actually answering the other ones questions or statements the only thing I can do is point at things you actually write that I think sounds weird.
One thing he said in one of those comments was that not anywhere on the admin forum it is stated that you have to keep your mouth shut about the work and Iller called it an “unwritten rule”.
For me it would have been more honest and truthful if you just banned him for being Gryzor.
Gryzor was bad for the community, every thread i read had him slating people for hardly any reason and barely adding anything to the discussions..
No idea why people are getting so worked up about this, it’s not as if it’s your whole life..
OH WAIT
You’re so cool kolox, let me guess. You posted that while f*cking chicks and snorting coke, am I right?
And yes, it is an absolute joke if Byte isn’t banned just like Gryzor was. But that will never happen because Byte is part of the old boys club running this place.
so because of the ban on gryzor, if i leak all of the admins who gave me confidential information during the tf2street days, will they also be banned? i think this would be a funny outcome.
I’ll put up a €50 bet that that would never happen Aye Doc, even if you had irrefutable evidence. Too much hypocrisy in this place.
Dear D2M!
Yes, that comment was rude. Sorry, but i’m really pissed of. Can the AC-team make good decision in every cheating case? I think not. And search after my comments in the forum, I say the same for a long time ago. It’s not the FAIR way of handling the cheaters. I lost my fate about ETF2L. And please, ban more people, because it’s just internet, who cares… And also I’m dissapointed in you, D2M. Am I blind? No, I’m not. Ask yourself a question: Am I always right?
I think it is your moral obligation to divulge that sort of information Aye Doc ;) , but the threat of being banned means that your hands are tied. ETF2L seems to be built upon different rules for different people. The admins’ buddies seem to have been granted impunity and then the league hides behind this “oh but gryzor was insane” tagline and expect the community to just swallow it as some sort of justification. The rules should apply to everyone, regardless of the amount of reach-around they give the admins.
Great news and nice initiative about the proofs stuff.
gg admins :o)
@rawr i dont think u understand any of this at all, If aye doc was to release anything then he would not be banned, nothing would happen to him for giving info out as he didnt used to be an admin, gryzor learnt stuff only by being an etf2l admin, aye doc learnt it by a leak, IF aye doc gave us the names and was able to 100% prove who leaked stuff then they would be removed, I dont care how high up they are or who they are friends with.
@bunfi i really dont get it, You seem to think that we watch for 2 seconds then say nah dodgy your banned, that is just stupid, The ac staff spend hours and even days trying to watch demo’s in slowmo and all the other tricks etc that they use trying to find the truth, They dont get paid, they dont get anything other than the satisfaction that the league has 1 less cheat in it. Please think abit before typing such crap. You really think we want everyone moaning at us for doing something for nothing? You honestly think we would go thru all this crap to get some person who hardly anybody knows banned from a bloody div 6 team, utter rubbish.
@klu, Seriously make sure you have facts before believe something, no-1 knows the byte situation as no-one was there when it happened, IF he leaked demo’s then why have we never EVER heard any of it? or seen any of the demo;s he “leaked”? I have never seen anyone give a link showing any of the demo’s that were available at the time, There was accusations made but none of them were proved and that is because nothing was EVER released. IF byte is found to have actually leaked info and it can be proven 100% then he will be removed.
Please stop raging at us and accusing us of crap, We are trying to run a league for u and we get nothing in return accept abuse.
Byte showing that stuff was just a stupid move, he wasn’t out to destroy anything. Gryzor’s personal vendetta is pretty much destroying the community. There is nothing wrong with being critical about the league and it’s rules, but there is no reason to act like a complete cock.
ofc koeitje, not all the rules are perfect and ofc some things do need work, that does include the ac team but no-one deserves the abuse some of the admins are getting atm
Can any admin link the demo that the report is based on..?
Or just confirm that its based on the 2 min long pub demo recorded from spectate by gryzor?
“microadjustments of crosshair.” its not a pov demo, therefore, its false. (if any adjustments was made, then its gryzor doing it(spectate demo))
Kop I was actually alluding to the fact that Aye-Doc might be banned in an attempt to cover-up any admin wrongdoing he might expose. I am well aware he is not an admin like gryzor was.
Ban Byte next lol.
Well, “unusual crosshair movements and patterns” and “potentially suspicious kills”? Are you kidding me? Once I headshoted a guy with a Moebius strip crosshair movement pattern.
I finished a simple verification test. I downloaded this pack – http://www.resupply.eu/index.php?site=files&file=67 – and watched gullywash demo following Jh. Now, can anyone pls tell me how the following differs from what I saw in quad demo:
87600, 107000 Unusual movement pattern, microadjustments of crosshair
88400 Microadjustments of crosshair
90900 Unusual movement pattern
106000 Potentially suspicious kill
Gryzor should have been banned since the “I will phone your parents” thing.It’s a miracle he even got so far without even a ban.Anyways I respect the AC admins for doing a great job and you div7 nerds should be greattefull that they even released proof to you
Still, you have to notice a sad thing. It took 2 years to ETF2L to recognize that maybe their ac system wasn’t as perfect as they claimed it to be. And even worse you say the leak of information is unacceptable but well you can at least recognize this is only thanks to this kind of extreme acts that we can today have a true “reform” of the ac system (or not but at least we’re speaking about it now).
Concerning Gryzor the important thing isn’t that he leaked some infos, the important thing here is that it took you 2 years to consider that maybe your system and way of acting wasn’t perfect.
So yeah i think there is a lack of apologize in your news for you huge lack of communication and open minding (dunno if it exists but you got the idea).
It seems to me that gryzor took yet another punch for fighting the flaws of the etf2l system.
The bann was ofc to be expected.
gryzor is a drunk and a crazy retard :D but u cant ignore what he presents cuz of that (((
Wondering btw what byte did more in detail and if he got some shit for that as well :D? the crime is the same right?
I find it amusing that all of you are so critical of the AC team, but what of the hackers they have caught who man up and admit it ? I guess they were just flukes right ? I mean the AC team is clearly so incompetant….
As far as Gryzor is concerned, I know nothing about the guy other than what I have seen on these forums and personally i’d have banned him just for that. His ‘point’ as many of you have suggested may have lead to a slight change in how the AC team does things, but it was clear me upon reading what he wrote, that it was little more than a way for him to take a ‘dig’ and a bad attempt at savalging what was left of his much tarnished reputation.
What I think you should all remember before bashing the AC team and admin team, is that ETF2L is the best league out there for us europeans, and they dont get paid a penny for making it so.
You dont have to play here either, if you dont like it kindly move along ?
If this is all over, we should sell the filming-rights to Hollywood and make a movie about it..
I fully agree with the post of Sigh. I think the AC- and Admin team and all the volenteers are doing a great job, keeping such league up and running for years. And I think what hurts the community the most are all the haters and whiners that keep posting here with childish arguements and bad language. For me, they are nothing better then people that use cheats.
I want to see supreme beings post being answered.
@Supreme Being: Yes! – .ru : you are absolutly true
“87600, 107000 Unusual movement pattern, microadjustments of crosshair
88400 Microadjustments of crosshair
90900 Unusual movement pattern
106000 Potentially suspicious kill”
lawl
speedhack lol
What a mighty wall of text and comms….
@Sigh:
The argument that this community is based on voluntarily work is getting so damn old!
We all agree that the admin crew is clearly trying to do their best in order to improve this league. Ofcourse we appreciate the fact that some cheaters have been caught and more cheaters will be.
This however shouldn’t mean we can’t be critical to the way ETF2L works. As a community it is our job to make sure the admin team makes the right calls.
So quit the whining everytime a discussion concerning rules enforced by the adminteam is questioned. Your suck-up attitude is even worse than the bashing comments. That said: all the people that disagree with the admins should try to keep their posts constructive! A wall of text with mindless rambling and rage won’t help us improve ETF2L.
@Sigh:
I’ve actually read my post-history to see what you could possibly find wrong in my posts in the forum. It’s mostly me trying to help people with technical problems and the occasional rant. The only “negative” thing I wrote has been deleted (D2M bashing a map-maker for bumping his own thread — I told D2M that the map was actually updated and he had provided an accurate update-list to go with it. To add salt (I presume) in his wounds, I asked him not to be as impolite to others as he is towards me, screaming “fucking alcoholic” on IRC and what-not. In reply I got a “enjoy your 7 day forum-ban”. This has conveniently been deleted now all of a sudden, a long with a few other classic abuses. I wonder why? I’m sure a lot read it, though…
So, just because you have this opinion regarding me, doesn’t mean you have the right to discredit me just because the admins do. It’s wrong when they do it and it’s wrong when you do it. But what the hell do I care, this whole situation is now just plain WRONG anyway! :)
3 months for racism, 6 months for death-threats against admins and other players, 12 months for writing an article in Swedish (viewable under the banlist). A small ‘LOL’ might be in place.
Kop also got somewhat upset that the only thing in the article they could tie to me as “leaking”, that is, the small argument regarding Marja and Tocsix, had NOT been reopened as a case. He seemed very keen to find out who had told me this (they claimed I had ‘impeded’ an ongoing investigation), I felt however, that there had been enough unwarranted bullshit-bans for this month. Go figure.
Have fun and take care!
All of this is making me want to join the AC-team because i know i would make an honest job. I am not saying that the ac-team doesn’t do it already but i trust myself best.
I find the whole thing with Gryzor pathetic, from both parties. However gryzors actions, he is always honest and speaks his mind, (sometimes combined with alcohol), but i always get the feeling he is telling the truth. From etf2ls side i never know because there always seem to come forward some peice of evedience that something has been done wrong.
Perhaps Gryzor has gone out of line and needs to be banned, i would say that D2M also has because on a level this whole situation seems personal. At least Gryzor has the balls to say what he thinks and doesnt hide behind rules and the etf2l.
To conclude my point, take notes about this situation so that we dont get another one in a month so we can play the game and etf2l because its been a great league that brings us all together and makes tf2 have a bigger scene /n.
[quote] http://www.clans-united.net/ [/quote]
Nix ?
I Lol’d, that’s why you’re on great div, hl²dm player :D
Supreme being makes a valid point that should be seriously looked into. If this jh displays the same traits as quad did and still remains unbanned, surely it should be investigated?
Also, please spare us this “oh they are volunteers”, ode to the admins. The fact is, if it was a paid position we wouldn’t have these “amateurs” doing it. The very essence of being a volunteer, is putting others before self, so expecting any recognition defeats the very purpose of volunteering in the first place, so why try and rally up sympathy for their “arduous” plight? You just make yourself look like a sycophant. They chose to put themselves in this position of so-called hardship and yet they are made to sound like martyrs.
With regards to the Gryzor incident on IRC, having witnessed the behaviour, I would hardly describe the admin’s decision to make a public attack on Gryzor’s private life in the #etf2l public channel, as appropriate. They are keen to expose the infantile nature of Gryzor’s actions and yet they act in a manor that is equally as childish. Aren’t the admins supposed to set an example and act in professional way? Because that was far from it. If Gryzor has a problem in his personal life, using it as some sort of dirt flinging exercise on the public channel is disgusting behaviour.
It is no wonder that people are beginning to show contempt for certain admins and their “we are unpaid volunteers and therefore we have carte blanche to do as we please” attitude.
wow those cheaters really make the whole etf2l having trouble…
After all the reasons and excuses removed, no one actually has to play here.
Indeed the admins don’t get paid and are doing it for free. That’s not really even relevant, because, if you’re not happy with how they do their “job”, you can just leave anytime. If you think you are a good and fitting person and can do their job better, then apply to the admin team.
It’s not very nice when you get attention only when you do something wrong, or someone raises the question of any wrongdoing. Volunteering does not equal wanting to take all kinds of crap all day – it’s the people being assholes in the first place and hardly ever thanking for anything that makes others stand up for the admins and such. It’s usually 1/10 people praising the good work and the rest critizising it or worse.
If you want to improve something, sure, critizise, be constructive, but going too far is always going too far. Do help them make it better if you really think something needs to be made better, but don’t just rage or be negative and blame others, do something useful.
At least try to be nice and calm, and do your part right.
@ JohnnyJackal
haha sucking up ? seriously ? I not once mentioned how amazing the admins are. Sure I dont bash them like many do either. I try to stay neutral actually.
I was going to write more in response to the crap you guys wrote about volunteers, but I can see from your posts how little respect you have for people who do things for little to no reward…
@ Gryzor
Well then I guess I must be mistaken, for I cannot recall anything in particular. I just seem to associate bad posts with yourself, but perhaps I have become confused, it happens alot …. Either way I take back what I said, as stated before I know nothing about you personally.
Thank you tteh-t, you added everything I would have written in response to the volunteering stuff :)
@Sigh:
I formulated that sentence wrong. Didnt mean that you had a suck up additude
Ah okay my bad ;)
Seems like part of my post got deleted!
Its my bad Sigh, shouldnt have typed “your”. I see why you took it the wrong way :p
What part of my post said I didnt respect what the admins do? I thought I stated the opposite
There seem to be generally 3 types of post on this forum: The raging hating type, the ” i agree on everything the admin does” type and the constructive posts. I would like to see more of the latter.
What is the admins doing wrong/right and how is it possible to change it for the better.This should be our main concern when responding to topics like this.
You know that byte has already said that he was watching them @ lan and he couldnt stop others seeing those demos. He was bored so he figured watching some ac stuff. And you know there are proof as winneh had those ac forums running which logged everything.
[quote] @klu… [/quote] 8(
Fixed it for you m0re <3
M0re: Well, that seems quite unlikely he decided to do that due to “being bored”, since:
(21:51:35) (winneh) + next i-lan in uk, our filebase dl counter increased about 400% within 1 evening all from same ip (i-event static ip)
(21:51:39) (winneh) on bytes account
(21:52:38) (winneh) bytes account got used and tons of guys told me about how obvious some hackers were
… a 400% increase due to boredom is a dodgy explanation at best. But I presume by reading the comments above, this whole situation becomes all too clear.
I guess for a comment to be addressed here you have to spice it up with some abuseive language or invent some clever insult or be someone.
Or just ask stupid simple questions that could at least get you an insult in return.
I still think my questions in my previous post are valid but I guess that I’m alone with that thought since they are ignored.
I’ll just keep my mouth shut from now on, at least here, and keep on bloggin’ in swedish.
D2M can you confirm that the AC-team even looked at the other demo we sent you? Or did you just hope it would all go away by ignoreing it?
Oh so you sent them a demo in which quad isn’t cheating as proof that he never has?
Anyway, I like the rule changes, changes to the AC team were necessary as well.
oh jeez :S
posting here jarate is completly unnecessary…. just pm him on irc, im fed up of hearing about quad now ¬_¬ fml
Read what I put they requested a video from us.
I don’t believe for a second that someone would watch AC demos out of boredom at LAN.
Laughable excuse.
how the fuck do you get banned for speedhacking is beyond me
why would anyone do that
Bored at a LAN? Why bother going for a drink and socialising with people, when you can watch AC demos?
Whatever pumps your nads I suppose.
In addition to the above, it’s obviously not so bad to cheat in matches if you’re admin nowadays: http://etf2l.org/matches/16200/
“Unfortunately by doing this, he unwittingly managed to break the 24hr till verified rule and had used his admin powers to cheat the system.”
Of course, cheating as an admin in a match lets you happily continue as admin. So does showing almost 70mb of demos from the closed anti-cheat fileserver (that’s A LOT of demos!) at LAN. Writing about the AC-teams gives you a 1 year ban though, it all makes sense.
As many probably remember, AnAkIn told EVERYONE in ETF2L COMMENTS POST (anakin had previously been removed as admin by dAy for various reasons, he was later re-enrolled at my request) at the time when AnroliF was “enrolled” as admin by Day that he was also involved with the account-sharing business that took place and became such a huge scandal. Yes, in the comments of the newspost (so NO, no LEAKING now either!). The whole issue got ignored and look — the very same guy cheats again. Go figure.
Man up and do the right thing already, this is getting worse by the minute.
I’ll never understand why people post such pointless stuff about issues that don’t concern them. I’ll never understand why people can’t just step back and let the little things go. And these issues are all little things, remember that.
Haha, priceless.
With regards to the suggestion that Anrolif should be kicked, the issue has already been dealt with, and the appropriate punishment awarded.
I spoke to him at length about what happened and I am satisfied that he made an honest mistake. His team was punished in accordance with the league’s rules for unauthorised mercs. No further action in this matter is necessary, nor does it warrant idiotic discussion that is designed to create false rumours about members of the ETF2L staff.
Anrolif is a fantastic league admin, and I am very proud to have him in our team.
Thankyou.
Gryzor is just a dick towards everyone , he had it coming. Although kudos on proving quad innocent , but he’s still a dick nonetheless.
So things that can easily be verified from multiple sources constitutes as “creating false rumors”? I don’t really get it… I’m actually quite surprised you manage to fantasize together that sentence and actually believe it yourself. Also, this thing you call “idiotic discussion” is kind of odd, considering what people have been writing above. Oh well, guess this attitude of yours goes well with your slandering on IRC (if you missed rawr who personally witnessed this on IRC, it’s an awesome read!).
It’s quite obvious you have something personally against me just because I pointed out “a few” flaws in an swedish article. I don’t even count the english one, since it a) misses text from the original article and was b) translated by other people than me.
It’s just sad you use the league and your power to ban people you personally dislike, whilst calling really serious rule-breakers “fantastic admins” while in the same passage carrying out even more insults.
Shame on you.
I have zero issues with you as a person Gryzor. I neither like or dislike you, and certainly do not care enough to hate somebody on the Internet. You can come up with a million excuses as to why you were banned for leaking information that you obtained whilst you were an Admin, but sadly you cannot pin it on any of us hating you. There was absolutely zero personal feeling in your ban, and everything to do with banning an ex admin who should know a hell of a lot better than to start giving out secrets like sweets. I find it a little laughable that you believe this, but you’re entitled to whatever opinion you want.
The problem I do have with your ‘internet persona’ is the constant abusive comments received in PMs since November of 2009, most notably in January and February of this year. Yes I have reacted to those, and you have received some in return. Maybe I could have said nothing back to you, but when you want to sit there calling me names in the safety of a PM for 4 months, you should come to expect that it’s not going to be tolerated forever. Constantly criticising me because you are waging a personal vendetta against Kop, myself and Byte is getting tiresome and like any human being, I’m perfectly entitled to tell you to get fucked.
I do not have the energy or time to keep up with the rest of the insults and lies I see about myself on here, so perhaps I’ll reply next time you PM me on IRC. All I can hope is that you wake up and stop pretending to be a martyr/wounded soldier who has done nothing wrong. I don’t hate any person I’ve come into contact with on the Internet, and I’m not about to start caring to now.
Enjoy the limelight with the rest of your comments, anyone that wants to ask the Admins a serious question, we can be found in #etf2l and !admin is the way to do it. Thanks.
Gryzor…
We have a rule in france which i like to follow : Never talk to dumb people because they will be a bit less dumb.
But i want to break this rule today to help you.
Cant you just go away from this league?
It seems to me you never been quiet since you get kicked from the staff by day. You have worked day after day against etf2l staff, which means against the league and even our beloved game tf2.
It is the time to forget us and think about you. Do you really want to continue this?
Instead of making something constructive, you have spent your time to criticising the league and the staff.
I’ve made a mistake. I took a slap. End of the story. ( and you are the well placed to understand this)
D2M… instead of ignoring, can you explain,
how this can be in the report: “microadjustments of crosshair”.
Since it can only be positive, if its a pov demo.
The demo is recorded from spectate you remember?..
Looks very incompetent of the ac team..
You’re a very incompetent cheater.
Wait.
So D2M, in reply to all the public slandering you’ve done against me, you now say I’ve been abusing you in PM:s for two months on IRC? TWO MONTHS! Jesus, that must be at least NINE THOUSAND lines of evil stuff! Funny, I find noting even close to that. In fact, in 8 months time, I find ~100 lines of IRC-log between us. Nice.
So now I’ve been waging a war against ETF2L on a daily basis for 18 months — where the hell has this been going on? I’ve not done ANYTHING against ETF2L _at all_. I’ve written ONE ARTICLE in Swedish (which you claim has nothing to do with my ban — now you’ve changed that to that is has ‘somewhat’ something to do with it).
So AnroliF, are you serious? How on earth can I have been “waging a war” against ETF2L for EIGHTEEN MONTHS _EACH AND EVERY DAY_ and I can find no trace of it?
Guess it must be me being “dumb”, as you write, since I can find no such evidence, either in the forums here or anywhere else. There are quite a few fun things about you and others though, but I have not published / leaked any of it. Neither have I lied.
Speaking about lies, I’d like to quote Nicklas:
“I find the whole thing with Gryzor pathetic, from both parties. However gryzors actions, he is always honest and speaks his mind, (sometimes combined with alcohol), but i always get the feeling he is telling the truth. From etf2ls side i never know because there always seem to come forward some peice of evedience that something has been done wrong. ”
And you know what? You have an entire TEAM of people who could prove me wrong if I chose to tell even the SLIGHTEST little lie (and I can bet my ass you’ve TRIED to prove me wrong in everything I’ve written but been UNABLE TO.
You both now AGAIN lying through your teeth is PATHETIC. If anyone is “destroying” TF2 it’s moronic shit like this, where you try and silence and ban people writing articles while turning a blind eye to your “buddys”.
So yeah, I want to continue this. Hell, I’ve not even started. I’ve written ONE article and that’s it. If I chose to get really ticked off about all this nonsense, I would still not have to LIE like you do. In your case. you do it to cause damage.
In my case, I do it to prove you’re not really trustworthy nor very intelligent people. Had you been the latter, you would’ve swallowed the article and done something positive about it. Had you realized what this newspost would turn into, you would probably never have posted it — because WITHOUT ANY HELP FROM ME, many people seem to be unhappy and lost respect for you. This is NOT my fault, it’s your own doing.
And you have the NERVE to imply that _I_ damage TF2? If you mean by constantly calling your stupid lies then yep, guilty. If you mean by writing an article about the AC-team in swedish then yep, I’m guilty. Most people have THANKED me for that article — the only “bad” words I’ve received is… in fact… from you. Go figure!
Save what little credibility and respect you have left. Unban me and Quad. I’ll even help you build up a new AC-team that will actually WORK, even if you do not really deserve the input. But hey, I’m like that — I do it for the game I enjoy now and then.
Take care!
Gryzor: TL;DR. I’m glad you’ll be gone though, you’re just the ragiest.
AnroliF has a point tho…
@thoa
It might look all interesting but if you are really looking to suggest improvements I suggest you take a look at this thread http://etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-9198/page-1/ or open a new one. Going by the article (note that we did look at the things presented) is a terrible idea since it’s sole purpose is yet another attempt by Gryzor to get back at some admins and trying to prove himself right for something that has happened 7 month’s ago when the ETF2L and gryzor parted ways.
I feel no need to get into a debate having continuously prove silly accusations wrong, I’d rather see more constructive ideas in aforementioned threads. If you are really interested in the answer to your question, yes there is a strict rule against releasing information, the thread is pinned in the league admin forum and has been so for 550+ days. The reason why Iller called it an unwritten rule is because he is not a league admin and therefore has no access to that thread.
@quad
That passed has my mind, which is why I checked another demo to see if the same blocky movement was absent there, unfortunately it wasn’t.
less QQ, more pewpew.
Seriously, use the time to write all those lengthy comments to play the game…
Well, I spent some more time watching quad demo and came to the conclusion that his aiming patterns are very, VERY suspicious – to say the least.
Jh’s patterns on the other hand are:
1) much more natural,
2) seems to be simply STV lags.
So I answered my own question and now community have an external verification, ok. It seems that gryzor had accidentally caught a cheater, lol :P
To be fair, my “aiming pattern” isn’t so “natural” either.
@Supreme Being
When you compare other players, you should keep in mind, that peoples sensitivity means alot.
Jh uses about 20cm to do 360
I use 31cm to do 360
I would say I’m a mid/low sens player.
My experience are:
High sens players normally have a very tracking aim(mostly)
Where low sens players normally do way more flick shots(ofc they track aswell, but far less than a high sens)
You should only compare with povs
“It seems that gryzor had accidentally caught a cheater, lol :P”
No I didn’t. I’ll try to explain to you why I do not think so, as short as possible.
You analysis of the demo is not very useful, due to the following three reasons:
1. The demo is recorded with his interpolation as a demo from spectator on a NON-DOMESTIC server. This interpolation is then recorded with my NON-DOMESTIC client with MY settings applied to this already interpolated data. An STV-demo would record right IN BETWEEEN these two clients and an STV-demo is STILL considered pretty much useless. Now add my interpolation, settings and 60ms ping ON TOP of this.
2. Using words like ‘stuttering crosshair’ in the first place is just plain dumb. If you are even to BEGIN to judge a DEMO of a cheat, I would PRESUME you’ve got quite a few accounts with TF2 by now where you’ve tested both public, private and subscription cheats. Some of these will get banned due to the usage of public cheats, hence, the huge number of banned steam-accounts on pile. Nice. Now, to make any sense of this, you’ve also noted down the characteristics of said cheats and have a preeeeeeeeetty good idea on what to look for. ‘Stuttering crosshair’ clearly tells me the one uttering that has no clue about what she/he is talking about. At all.
3. And EVEN IF THE ABOVE TWO IS ENOUGH, I know Quad didn’t cheat, since I’ve played with him for MONTHS on DK Center-servers. He usually draws pretty even with me, sometimes I do better than him, sometimes he does better than me. He doesn’t really stand out as an “excellent” player in any particular way and hand on heart, neither do I. Has to be a pretty shitty cheat-system that doesn’t actually help you out very much.
So please, mentioning “STV lags” means you did not realize the circumstances in which this demo was recorded and, “stuttering crosshair” is a very, very common artifact seen in many demos. Unless you have taken some serious interest into cheats and how they work, including testing the majority of them for yourself to get a true understanding of what they do and how they look — do not bother trying to pass judgment. I’d also say if you believe something is “more natural”, that’s worth looking into. That’s how the majority of todays cheats works. Subtle smooth movements, random activation/deactivation of triggerbots (auto-shooting when crosshair over enemy playermodel) and when you mix random triggerbotting with just certain playermodels, you get to the real fun stuff.
It’s not exactly rocket sience, but you DO have to invest some time if you think it’s an interesting phenomenon.
It has nothing whatsoever to do with sensitivity, interpolation and stuff. Those movements I saw are impossible to do by hand, that simple.
Plus, I have this:
Plus, combined opinion of AC team.
That is enough _for me_ to make _my own_ opinion on whether the ban is legit or not.
… and what did I write regarding “stuttering crosshair” / “blocky movements”? You also forget the “AC-team” is only two people and Kops statement above, who claims to be an past AC-admin (Past, after an incident I rather not vent in public, but involved a pair of headphones, a spy and a heavy! :D)
I know for a fact no real cheat-research has been conducted by AC since the days of me, winneh and jonni. This was also mentioned in my article.
I respect your opinion and your right to vent it — I just disagree and reply (hopefully) in a fairly mature and informative manner.
claims to be a past ac admin? sorry i cant see that anywhere, I have openly admitted that i am not one for spotting cheaters so do stop trying to feed even more lies than you already do. That example was from long before we had a AC team and when EVERYONE could access stuff, I stated an opinion but if im not mistaken the admins with experience explained it properly and the correct decision was made.
“mature and informative” is not exactly your style, mind.
“I know Quad didn’t cheat, since I’ve played with him for MONTHS on DK Center-servers”
Translation: He mi frend i ply wif him at LAN!!1
Don’t let the door hit you in the back of the head on your way out.
Because they are the heroes TF2 deserves, but not the ones it needs right now. So we’ll hunt them, because they can take it. Because they are not heroes. They are silent guardians, watchful protectors. ETF2L staff. White Knights.
“stuttering crosshair”
Are you considering real life movement with this, for instance he may hold his mouse in such a way that he slightly lifts the mouse and causes the mouse to stutter? have you considered this?
“blocky movements” you do realise that because your using a keyboard (WASD makes 8 movement selections) he may not use 2 keys at once?
It may seem like im on Quads side but im just after more info on what your basing it on. Ive played against him before as a scout, hes suprisingly good but really isnt hacking at all, yes he does get some suprising shots but dont we expect that from scouts anyway?
@ sfnx
Blocky movement referred to the crosshair movements mentioned before.
Also, ruffeeh, you made my day, thanks :D
Racio… holy crap…
Can you watch ANY other spectate demo, without having “strutter”/”blocky” movements on crosshair.. no..
So you say that my “aimbot” is turning/aiming for me all the time, with “blocky” movements?
Cant believe that you guys are still trying to lie yourself out of this mess..
How many mistakes have the AC team/you done offcially? oh yeah.. amazing, 0 mistakes..
Like that is human and possible, and still trying to cover up mistakes by lies, and random shit talk
You know Quad the least you could do is remain the bigger man and remain polite. Posting like that isn’t doing you any favors.
Quad we unbanned someone a few months ago as a mistake was noticed and fixed, Please get your facts correct.
@sfnx the ac guys know what they mean, we are not going to go into every little detail explaining how and what exactly we look im afraid.
I would’ve said 1:42 to when the scout attempts to go into resupply and you kill him shows dodgy stuff :)
http://www.own3d.tv/video/22653
“Lawl, I saw u play, you aimed for the enemy all the time, fucking hax…”
nice link ziggy. http://www.own3d.tv/video/22653
nice dodgy track on the demo through the rock, who couldnt have been called, both scouts were above @ 1min.
you good bro
*sigh* Clue for you.. http://www.own3d.tv/video/22664
Was also posted in the video section..
Well done Exfane, another piece of useless insight that has already been discusses and refuted. Go do some background reading on the subject, then come back and maybe you might actually contribute to the discussion? Although the chances of it are unlikely.
I have always stood on the AC teams side, this time I really don’t.
For me its seems that you dont have the guts to remove the ban on quad, what would happend if you did? you etf2l would stand on the wrong side of this, I really dont se any other way then to remove quads ban from this vendetta, how can he still be banned?
You etf2l still stands tall and say that you still thinks quad cheats, wake up and face the truth: you made a bad call here, dont let quad take the damn foult for it.
And even if it you think he cheats he still should get a second chance and it pretty obvious why.
Berst regards Pedman
The only chances that are unlikely is the unbanning of quad coz some shitters spam the etf2l forums with it. wp sirs
As an admin on the serverpark where Quad was “caught” I can add that Quad is well known in the small danish scene, and never been accused of cheating by any of our other regulair players. Quite odd as he is a pretty active player on our servers and have been around almost since the start of TF2. For the same reason, he’s of course not banned from our servers.
And no, I’m not a friend of Quad trying to save the boy, im a server admin who’s genuinely worried about the state of the AC team, and hope this works as a wakeup call.
Well exfane, really nice comments, wp sir.
I dont know quad, never seen him play, but for him to be cought in this drama and be banned from etf2l for it consern me for the future of this league.
Like I said before i don’t se any other way then to unban quad and give him another chance to play in this league, he have been cought in this drama and only him has taken the shit for it.
Best regards Pedman
You can download the demo here: http://rapidshare.com/files/352299426/quad.zip
Ticks are in the news post. Have fun!
Supreme Being I am sorry I really don’t think you’l get my point here.
What I am trying to say to you: etf2l even if you think he’s cheating hes still should get a second chance, this is not an ordinary cheat ban its so mush stuff behind this whole scene.
This player quad has not been proper treated like he should have, I really think you don’t remove the ban just because you dont have the guts to do it, hes should NOT take the blame for the things gryzor did and thats is just what quad have.
So i really dont need to watch this demo becouse thats not the case here in my opinion.
So if you don’t remove this ban I think the AC team is done for, how can you in the future be trusted? I don’t se it, sorry.
Best regards Pedman
How about a first chance? Never played a single match in etf2l, ever.
Pedman: So you believe banning me for 12 months for “exposing” their short-commings 90 minutes after the article was published was “right” then?
To me it just felt yet another panic-action. D2M banned me for some very odd reason for 1 week from the forums, I noticed he extended that as well. Funny how much words can hurt insecure organizations :)
Ah well, enough for a while. I shall return when I feel they’re stuffed up enough and sadly needs, yet again, get taken down a notch or two. It’s pretty pathetic this is even necessary. Everything would be so much more fun, enjoyable and productive if people would just have fun, get a long and stop FUCKING AROUND. I do not count my actions as “fucking around”, however, but I also realize this is “just the intertubes”. No reasoning or intelligence to be expected.
Have fun!
Before I forget it:
Fun Fact: I was to present my findings regarding Quad to AC directly, before D2M decided to pick on some poor mapmaker and trying to belittle him in every way possible. When I asked him not to, he banned me from the forum and continued the IRC-rage, using profane and clueless words (as witnessed by numerous people as well — whom question if D2M is really fit for this). After this, I decided a public article might put him in his place and make him step back and actually STOP HIS BULLSHIT. The result, you can see above. Tons of lies, punishments and more namecalling. I guess my tactic didn’t work, but at least people won’t really care much next time D2M goes on a namecalling spree (usually happens after 1-2 months of ‘being nice’).
Good luck (again).
Pedman, ofc you should have the option to vent your opinion.
However my comment was made to quad’s “posse”, stop spamming the forums with his problems.
I dont know anything about quad’s case, just that his vids look very fuckin dodgy. It could still be that he is banned while he’s innocent. Unlucky for him that there is no way for appeal.
Showing new demos wont work; he couldve been cheating on just that one demo.
I think i dont even have to explain why he cant explain his dodgy aim/movement on his demos to the admins, that makes sense to the admins.
If everything is going so wrong with the AC team of etf2l, why not make a seperate website for it. Gryzor seems the perfect man for having such a site. Keep the crap off etf2l and take your shit to an admin. The admins will never read these forums, agree with the post your made and unban you.
I don’t really care much about any “admins”, Exfane. D2M/Kopster/Racio-crew seems to have purged the last remaining competent people from the roster, spare deneusbeer and snowie. The rest have recently left or are just “inactive”. The league runs itself, more or less, if people would just confirm their scores and play their games. Everything is automated. Removing people who could actually better the league and “sit on top” like they do now is just sad. I feel kind of bad for the true heroes behind this league who has just given up and doing other things, while morons like D2M rape the good name and fuck with nice people, trying to make TF2 better (like that now famous mapmaker!).
So, what are the “admins” good for now, anyway, except for doing panic-bans from league play/forums, insulting people in fore mentioned forums and also on IRC, for no obvious reason?
Confirming scores teams “forgot to” and setting default-dates?
You tell me. I can’t come up with a single answer. Safe to say, it’s pretty hard to keep the “crap off ETF2L”, when the crap you mention is spewing from its very core at the moment. Regarding the “AC” you mention, this has all be answered above, so I don’t even know why you bring it up again.
gryzor you know were I stand you should not even have to ask.
I have made my point of this.
Pedman, why should he get a second chance when no other person who’s been banned by ETF2L has been given one? Why should he be excepted? Who says what Gryzor posted is true? No offense to you, Gryzor, but all we have is your word for it that that is what happened. The word of 1 man who isn’t exactly on friendly terms with a lot of people, including many people in the admin team on ETF2L. Who is to say that what you say is actually the truth, and not just an attempt at getting back at them?
(I’m not saying it is, but I assume you see my point)
Isent second chance when you have got your first chance to play in the league?
Fact(and posted serveral times):
I have never played an etf2l match.
Nor is any of the evidence valid..
Some might argue that regardless of the authenticity of gryzor’s comments, they have made quads case exceptional. I doubt many other cases have had a former AC admin use them as a case in point to expose the frailties of the system….
Buffalo Bill:
Yea thats why gryzor got banned, for words. Its a reason why gryzor got banned and in my eyes a wrong ban.
And the fact that quads ban is way different then other bans on etf2l is pretty obvious, this is not a normal case to differ each others bans.
Like I said before I have made my point, I will stop here.
I’ll probably get banned for this, I don’t really care and it wouldn’t be the first time anyway.
D2M is as two faced as they come. I don’t know what his agenda is, but draping every post in safety smilies and fake kindness certainly seems to be working for him. Anyone that thinks he is genuine is massively naive IMO.
As for quad’s ban, it’s an utter shambles. Either the admins would have posted conclusive proof of him cheating if he did in fact cheat, or they fact would have posted some vague non-descript terms in an effort to get the masses off their back about a controversial ban. Which sounds most familiar?
Gryzor is a cunt, I rarely get along with him but from what I can tell he is telling the truth is this case and is only doing so to expose some issues that needs to be addressed.
*in this case