Anti Cheat section: Bans & more
October 25, 2009
New AC request command
We have added a new command to our IRC bot which can be used to contact our anti cheat section. Please use this from now on by querying one of the bots (ETF2L/ETF2L2/ETF2L3) and typing “!acrequest”.
Please be patient. If nobody contacts you right away try again after some hours.
New Banning Policy
We have a total of 127 VAC Banned accounts registered to ETF2L. If you have a vac banned account and don’t contact the ac section in the next two weeks, the ban will be applied in the league.
To prove to an Anti-Cheat admin that you can play on a secure TF2 server, and therefore in ETF2L, contact an AC admin by the new “!acrequest” command.
Back for more
Some people just don’t learn. We are sad to announce further punishment to the following players for attempting to evade their current ETF2L bans by registering new accounts. Please do not try and do this – you will be caught.
Heliana [2nd account]- [Tack] a.k.a. [Yanac]
[Waffle] [2nd account] a.k.a. [invincble]
[SonofPi3] a.k.a. [Mads]
[Megadeath] a.k.a. [Mon]
New Cheaters
It seems there are more players wanting to join the exclusive “Cheat Club”. See below for the newest found hackers and cheaters.
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content rss
spicke :[
Orange Revolution :)))
Bye bye, zwaai zwaai!
flame + useless discussion coming up below me:
WHAT THE FUCK BANANA
lawl
suprised about spicke, but always thought banana was dodgey… :\
hahahahahaha spicke and banana sitting in a tree….
ahahahaha
finally banana :) i was waiting for this…bb
inb4 rage
inb4 shitstorm
Nice one i was thinking why banana is so good these days.
OMG !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOOOOOOOOOOOOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Spicke?
u r kidding me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AC T жгите дальше!
http://etf2l.org/matches/12945/
default win for elD?
yup
ban all good players from russia/ukraine and so on!!!))))
ban all cheating players from europe and so on!!!))))
Fix’d
soldier with aimbot? i want to see dat
Dunno about Spicke. Banana was dodgy though.
0:35 – SPACE COWBOY: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxOT8vY6imI
LOL
SPICKE? U WANNA BAN ALL NICE PLAYERS FROM EASTERN EUROPE?!
^ Animal’s, keep clicking 0:01 :D:D:D:
does joske contackt with the AC team??
Ban Spicke? lmao! Winneh number two T_T or maybe number zero :O
HEY !! WTF!!! are nuts!!!??!?! Spike newer used cheats!! i know him so long time, hes primary class Slodier and some times he plays Scout. U wanna say he use cheats and he cot self-aim rockets!?!!!! are u stupid? omfg!! usless league, no respect 2 players.
Try 2 understand abut call some one cheater is very high charge, and u must profe it 2 players with proof. Or all Player will be know ETF2L league like “League of small crying boys which do not trust in that that it can take their ass and ban good players to be the best among nooobs!!!
Took quite long before Spicke finally got banned, was always so obvious, he’s been doing it since last season pretty much .. Any predictions for new bans? :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF5SbxP5UP8&feature=related
and this is far more obvious ;) .. why would you even upload a clip like this? ..
Spicke? It’s not possible… rly
Spicke cheater? You’ve gotta be kidding me! Nice joke
tell me pls, how u decide how long should be ban ? smb for 1 year, smb for 2, smb permanently…
lol Banana , finally You got owned :)
……………………………..
OMFG !!! Spicke cheater? LOL !! nice joke !!!!
nice work act!
PS. spalilsa pasik!
I always knew Spicke was a cheater. Never missed an air rocket!
Great clip that Animal linked to :P
well yeah… there no reason to use aimbot for a soldier… shotgun overkill?
OMG OMG OMG!!!!
Hi shooting in place whear sombody will be in few sek. HOw thet can be AIM?
On Vidio hi shooting in wall wehn killing scout, is thet wallaim? wtf?
пиздаболы :) чмоке
Animal spoiled it :(
btw, there is an aimbot as soldier, in some cheats they call that “prediction”
Why are people still saying “OMG SPICKE NO WAY HE LIEK GUY I KNOW FOR YAERS” when there’s two links to YouTube videos where he clearly looks to be cheating?
Demourge: px. said:
October 26th, 2009 at 12:49 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF5SbxP5UP8&feature=related
and this is far more obvious ;) .. why would you even upload a clip like this? ..
What obvious ???That u an idiot? Omfg so retardet european kids…
Both videos are uploaded by himself. So you think he would upload videos where he was obviously cheating?
lol it’s funny how many guys don’t know there’s projectile aimbots as well. I don’t know crap about if these two guys cheated but the twitching in spicke’s clips is a very good indicator of what’s going on.
Keep up the good work AC admins.
lulz , AC team for life :D
PS spicke – q3 skillz das the best skillz . gl mate
lol it’s funny how many guys don’t know there’s projectile aimbots as well. I don’t know crap about if these two guys cheated but the twitching in spicke’s clips is a very good indicator of what’s going on.
Yes? It’s so funny how many guys don’t know there’s some skillz as well.Some nice fast thinking brain and good hands…
Obviously not enough skill because he had to cheat ::::::D
kids so kids….
No any arguments?
Fuck!How stupid person must be to think that someone will upload his own frag video with cheats to u-tube..
So lame…Lame league,lame admins-kids…
oh Abra !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rARyJcbm5XE
Explain those flicks to be the medic on granary then. (btw if he deletes it from youtube I got a backup of it)
Koeitje: Rejects said:
October 26th, 2009 at 2:01 am
Explain those flicks to be the medic on granary then. (btw if he deletes it from youtube I got a backup of it)
Exactly.. won’t see those flicks on a normal persons aim/mouse control.. unless he got a very bad case of parkinsson…. Open your eyes Abra, and stop being a prick. :P it’s so obvious..!
it is starting to be interesting to play russian roulette with div500 partners
whos next?
french tf2 sounds pretty lulzy
“oh Abra !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rARyJcbm5XE”
Ohhh yeah baby,i am fucking good)))
lol,ACT can u pliz ban guy here http://pldx.com/movie/890/Like_this/ 2:48
this guy is so obviously cheat!!!11
LOL
this “he my friend he not cheat” shit never gets old.
spicke? :<
Ban Hostage he use magik to make me go on his stiki! Its cheating power! He have 6 woodoo models on enemy palyers! it cheat!
”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxOT8vY6imI
^ Animal’s, keep clicking 0:01 :D:D:D:
”
Hahah that is priceless.
#ChOun: said:
October 26th, 2009 at 2:00 am
oh Abra !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rARyJcbm5XE
LOL choun, EPIC PHAIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111
moment from Moscow LAN (10.05.09) where no one had any permissons for installing any soft and even their own cfgs by himself!
ahahah QQ some more, kid!
>oh Abra !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rARyJcbm5XE
lol choun, pls donn’t disgrace yourself c_c
“this “he my friend he not cheat” shit never gets old.”
this “hes cheater, its obvious” shit never gets old
this “finnaly they banned him” shit never gets old.
LOL!111111111
Wtf!? Why fragga dosent ban yet??? He use more cheats than spicke… or if you know admins you never will ban?…
die ac admins >:
I lol’d
Dear idiots: Shut up, kthx.
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/6273/cheatclub.gif
gj admins.
I really hope Elur isn’t serious… but it’s hard to tell.
Fragga is shit.
russian rage again!!!!!
“Both videos are uploaded by himself. So you think he would upload videos where he was obviously cheating?”
I guess you should ask him. Abra did it too. I guess they are not really smart.
>russian rage again!!!!!
nothing to say? So gtfo
Hello, i just woke up and see that. I won’t whine, try to defend me, as it did not work with flo pikalash & co. I dunno wich demo was used to ban me, i would have it i think i’ve the rights to see it.
and just LOL, i go to a LAN in now 6 days , sad.
<3 all u're "i allways thought banana was dodgey" :)
“suprised about spicke, but always thought banana was dodgey… :\”
I remember playing a match a while back against Banana. My entire team said there was something suspect about him but I was hesitant to believe it. This is a shame.
I rarely post to say the contrary about these bans.. but why is Heliana banned with that account as its not registered on ETF2L? I suppose it just means IF that account tries to creat an account on etf2L and plays with it, he will get a bigger ban?
I mean it would be pushing it if your gonna start banning accounts that arent registered on etf2l wouldnt it?
Hmmm, Anakin cleared it up saying tack nor Heliana are getting a bigger ban sentence as that account never registered to a team. Nevermind then, maybe clarify it in News :)
Cheaters standing up for cheaters never gets old.
I wonder team admins familiar with such games as Quake1? QWTf? Quake3, ql you played in them At least at the secondary level? If not then I understand this is not professional in search of cheats. Good luck, you certainly made me go back to q3 & QL.
As most quakers spicke uses high sensitivity and acceleration, just set your sensitivity 5 times greater and look at your “flicks”.
good job, admins (quite obvious on the precise fasttwitch in comparison to his regular manuals). Watching our demo against Keep out again now.
I very rarely get strong hunches, but I played against Spicke in Pingtimeout TF2DM and his Scout aim was feeling really dodgy, compared to his movements and overall gamesense. When I started speccing, he suddenly stopped pwning everyone. But I guess I know now why :P
Not that it matters, but I guess it adds up.
The first video posted by Animal was pretty damning; as he pointed out the very unnatural twitch to the enemy at 0:01 was conspicuous. I’m not sure I could see anything incriminating in the video you posted Demourge, the shotgun aim was impressive but I couldn’t see any similar bizarre cursor twitches.
With Anakin on the AC team you’d have to be a compulsive gambler to bet against them being right.
TF2 IS DIE! ETF2L LEAGUE MUST DIE! Spicke is’nt cheater!
ироды
Блять да какого хера, надоело на английском, долбаебы админы, читайте на русском, вы всех З А Е Б А Л И, банить без доказательств, то что в мувике это не доказательство, это спокойно обьяснятся реакцией человке , блять, да я когда играл в Q3 и не такое видел, если бы видел то что я то после таких выстрело бы покончли жизнь самоубийством от злости, меленкие ублюдки, если не умете так стрелять и думать, иди в дом для умственно отсталых, ппц как злит, и еще всяки уроды кричат что читеры защищают читеров, дети блять, нахуй эту лигу, удалите мой как, долбогрызы. ПОЗОР тупо мальеники дети, остнитесь одни играть в мультика.
П.С.
Перводите нах.
Блять да какого хера, надоело на английском, долбаебы админы, читайте на русском, вы всех З А Е Б А Л И, банить без доказательств, то что в мувике это не доказательство, это спокойно обьяснятся реакцией человке , блять, да я когда играл в Q3 и не такое видел, если бы видел то что я то после таких выстрело бы покончли жизнь самоубийством от злости, меленкие ублюдки, если не умете так стрелять и думать, иди в дом для умственно отсталых, ппц как злит, и еще всяки уроды кричат что читеры защищают читеров, дети блять, нахуй эту лигу, удалите мой как, долбогрызы. ПОЗОР тупо мальеники дети, остнитесь одни играть в мультика.
П.С.
Перводите нах.!
# fJack: vertex said:
October 26th, 2009 at 11:15 am
The first video posted by Animal was pretty damning; as he pointed out the very unnatural twitch to the enemy at 0:01 was conspicuous. I’m not sure I could see anything incriminating in the video you posted Demourge, the shotgun aim was impressive but I couldn’t see any similar bizarre cursor twitches.
With Anakin on the AC team you’d have to be a compulsive gambler to bet against them being right.
——————————-
Then we should all thank etf2l that you’re not an AC admin ;) look at where the xhair is every time with the shotgun and how he locks on to the models .. ;)
Also this high sens crap is bs, cuz if that were the case, he wouldn’t be “aiming” so smoothly with the shotgun to the models, but a lot more hectic and with more speed than he is doing now.. :)
Geegee.
TF2 IS DEAD! ETF2L MUST DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Spicke isn’t cheater лошпены!
Blyat’ and what WTF, dickheads of admins, you all freaks ban without proofs, then that in movie it is not proof, it is quiet the explaine reaction of man, fuck, and I when played in Q3 and saw not such, if saw that I that after such shots u will suicide from malice, small mongrels, if not can shoot and think, go to the house for mentally backward, ppc as angers,
yep. the granary clip is pretty dodgy. he were just playing down the demoman when unfortunately the medic came out of his cover and his xhair instantly locked on this model. bad luck mate =D
LoL, that’s what you call biggest tf2 league? Fuck yeah! And after that some1 saying “hey tf2 gonna die wtf” sure its gonna fucking die if you gonna ban everyone who give few nice shots. So gl&hf with your “non-cheating teamfortress2”.
l2play without hax plz so u can stop the cry
Yep, bb guys
banana
http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt14/Ka0s337/1256385967853.png
fucking finally
TF2 is not going to die because some cheaters are banned.
It could very well die if too many people are cheating on the other hand.
Like i would to say on my locker topic right now (:o)
Yep… the subject was talked and talked again… but the problem is : if it’s not true… all our team will be not able to play etf2l cause of suspection ? Are we serious ? It’s not like that we will get esport on tf2. Like a lot of people said : It make me really feared… if we are progressing too quickly, we can get banned cause of no ordinary skill boost ?
I don’t want to deban banana (actually yes i want :D), but i just request a demo an a tick to get my own opinion about it… don’t share it at all if you want, just to the concerned people.
Thank you admins, was 99% sure about procella. Esther Garcia AKA banana.
tf2 is going to die because of non-argumented bans of some ppl.
where is proof? rly, what the duck is wrong with this shitty league.
i foresee all who play too good will be banned.
“pizdets” seems finally came here…
Haha… are you kidding ? :D
I will lolz so much if one day tocsix will be catch too ;)
We can play in league with it’s anticheat measures based on opinion of few people, with ignoring community asks for proof, or we can go another league maybe even make own. I choose 2nd.
Manov:
No Iam not kidding, anything else?
all I want is proof that spike was cheating. no proof=etf2l sucks…that’s all.
If etf2l sucks that bad why are you still here typing in my opinion shit, stop cry and just deal with that admins ban players that cheats.
Should we then remove the AC and just let the community take the responsibility to ban players, well no.
and about spicky: look at the youtube movies, something weird is going on there we can all se it, just deal with it.
etf2l is a great league with to many winers, its a reason why etf2l is the biggest league in europe.
seems like an another proof that ac section doesn’t like east europeans…basically russians.
Spicke wrote: “I wonder team admins familiar with such games as Quake1? QWTf? Quake3, ql you played in them At least at the secondary level? If not then I understand this is not professional in search of cheats. Good luck, you certainly made me go back to q3 & QL.”
—
OLOL… man you really have no clue what funny things you tell here! Made my day! :D I played q3 RA3 (mainly air rocket shooting mod) in Europe top10 before i joined TF2, because RA3 died… so please stop telling any lies like THAT! Oh and i also played CTF on a pretty high lvl ;)
Btw there are haxx for rockets and shit… you could even aimbot with a demoman, if there is a bot… could do that in CS, Quake and wherever so… why not in TF2? :D You guys are so funny …
and banana… for what did you spend time in our mumble and speccing me if you started cheating in the end? :/ Sad story… lolz!
Btw spicke… beeing “professional” means not playing in a secondary level or first level! Professional means beeing competetive at lan and earn money with that shit! So stop telling lies! And all you russhitians cheating tards that try to prove his innocence… i lol at you! :D
“And all you russhitians cheating tards that try to prove his innocence”
zodiac, i think, i hear any delicate hints towards russians
Look at my horse, my horse is amazing!
“Should we then remove the AC and just let the community take the responsibility to ban players, well no.”
Just show proof. And make something like aequitas or much better to have quite reason to ban, but not because somebody plays strange.
“zodiac, i think, i hear any delicate hints towards russians”
1. zodiak , there is a K and no C :P that is delicate!
2. you hear delicate hints against cheating russians that flame this topic! So … cheaters, not russians! ;) That these cheaters are now only russians, my bad? :P
3. <3
ah and btw. i have many russian friends irl , so would be stupid if i hate them, because most of them are really true friends :) … can discuss this via PM if you want to clear things :)
“Just show proof. And make something like aequitas or much better to have quite reason to ban, but not because somebody plays strange.”
Comprehension of written english should be a requirement for joining ETF2L.
bananaz: proof? Check the youtube vids
Please only speak English in here.
A lot of comments had to be removed due to flaming and usage of other languages. Please keep it clean or we will have to close comment function for this post.
So many people have a misguided belief in anti-cheat programs over humans going through demos. Hint: apart from the most obvious of the obvious hacks… Aequitas, Xray etc. do absolutely nothing.
Bah, no edit button. Seriously, I think you people would be content with a cardboard box with “Magic Anti-Cheat Machine” written on it, because you know, anti-cheat programs are infallible and perfect by default but manual checking is always wrong.
Please give a proof here or we will have to impose on you Russian mafia!
We are just asking for a demo and a tick… :D
Proof is other words.
I’m agree, cheat is boring, hard to detect if it’s used well, killing the game if we don’t kick cheater.
I know aequitas and all other anti cheat programs are not the only one solution, but kick player without real proof and just about some suspicions sucks ! :(
Youtube videos are great proof, ya!! And, yeah, spicke is that stupid to upload videos of games, where he used cheats. Keep beleiving in fairytales, you’ve imagined by yourself.
Some…mm..I dunno…maybe demos.. maybe records from demos in high quality… Maybe some logs from programes, which actually can detect cheats?
And please not that shit about “Ohmygod!!!! He plays sooo strange”. That means if I say “Hmm… That guy is shooting too good, ban him” and record the video and uload it on youtube, some guy will be banned, wouldn’t he?
We need 100% proof,u know?Not just strange aiming in his own utube movie..Is it clear?
+1 to aequitas
Show me who decide ban this players. Let community know it
Thank you admins, was 99% sure about procella. Esther Garcia AKA banana. – Pedman <—
What a fucking quote you utter moron, procella is a team not one person. I hope your player toxsic gets investigated to.
proof on youtube ? :D
I saw Michael Jackson as a ghost on youtube too… is that a proof he is alive ? :D
I think strange aiming in a youtube movie is pretty good evidence.
“Comprehension of written english should be a requirement for joining ETF2L.”
Yes, true, if you can’t understand what I write than go to school and learn more your native language. When people speaks on bad Russian or Ukrainian it’s not problem for me to communicate with them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw3e64sosEg
Anyway… i just gone on youtube, and didn’t found a banana’s cheat movie. But i saw a abra’s cheat movie as a scout : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rARyJcbm5XE
Seriously… where is the cheat here ?
Gimme url for banana if you have :)
Lol, french TF2 sounds are funny :D
so sad about banana. i know for a fact that he had massive movement skills so its fucking shite he decided to go aimbotting :( i always thought he was that good because of his frenchman internet connection :P
Spicke was so obviously cheating, everyone that played him said the same.
i am want to delte acount i am not play in league that does no give proofs and spicke is no cheater he plays qe3 and quake and quake classic and quake ctf and quake heroes and my litle quake and quake hawaii at compeitve level dat why his aim is so godo so i sugest admins you beomce unbiased an throw away your jealously becaus it only make you ban good honest players lik spicke and he not cheat
banana is also my friend and despite him being french he has come to my mhouse in rusia and played tf2 just to show he i no bot and he is sstill very skill when he play without bot he very good playe and watched with own eyes that he dont cheat admin got it wrong
NICE JOKE ADMINS
NICE JOKE
NICE
NICE JOKE
HAHAHA
You say that because you need a victory over Keep Out
this is the end… de de deeeee… bai bai cheaters!
True banana travelled from france to russia to show you how he plays… :D olol its getting funny in here! So take off all your clothes… :>
No, he says that because It’s true, the bad thing is, I wouldn’t have noticed that twitch if no one pointed it out, despite it being so blatantly obvious, humans don’t twitch like that, wake up.
Banana still going to the french tf2 lan next week… we will see anyway ! :s
But actually, even if he rox in lan without cheat, you will continue to blame him… and if he sux… you will blame him more :) funny story. Like Strenx in France during 3years… he played very well and a lot of demo suspected him of cheating : http://video.google.fr/videoplay?docid=-7878074526394075722#
But now… he is a progammer at q3/ql… Hope banana prove you he didn’t
Anyway banana is still coming to the french lan next week… we will say.
But the funniest thing is : if he rox without cheat, you will continue to blame him… and if sadly he sucks… you will blame him more ! It’s always the same story… just like Strenx, an french quaker. He roxed a lot just after a few month of practice… a lot of demo suspected him to cheat : http://video.google.fr/videoplay?docid=-7878074526394075722
Now he is a progammer at q3/ql… So what’s wrong ? Strenx still a cheater in lan ? sure ! :p
Come on… prove it banana :)
Anyway banana is still coming to the french lan next week… we will say.
But the funniest thing is : if he rox without cheat, you will continue to blame him… and if sadly he sucks… you will blame him more ! It’s always the same story… just like Strenx, an french quaker. He roxed a lot just after a few month of practice… a lot of demo suspected him to cheat :
Now he is a progammer at q3/ql… So what’s wrong ? Strenx still a cheater in lan ? sure ! :p
Come on… prove it banana :)
Anyway banana is still coming to the french lan next week… we will say.
But the funniest thing is : if he rox without cheat, you will continue to blame him… and if sadly he sucks… you will blame him more ! It’s always the same story… just like Strenx, an french quaker. He roxed a lot just after a few month of practice… a lot of demo suspected him to cheat : [type “fear my aim” in google]
Now he is a progammer at q3/ql… So what’s wrong ? Strenx still a cheater in lan ? sure ! :p
Come on… prove it banana :)
deek:procella
Thank you admins, was 99% sure about procella. Esther Garcia AKA banana. – Pedman <—
What a fucking quote you utter moron, procella is a team not one person. I hope your player toxsic gets investigated to.
Gj deek. Cant read? He wasnt pointing out the whole team, just procella – Esther Garcia AKA banana.
deeK:
Are you seriuos, I called him by his claname.
Yopu have any problem with what I say here add me on steam and we can talk further.
What about tocsix deek, you have any problem with him dont talk to me talk to him, sure he will prove you wrong, turd.
Im just sick of you sad fucks that roll on the band wagon like a 2 year old dick tard. Sure add me on steam id gladly fuck you off.
Ruffimpact32
Good comeback deek, I will not discuss this further with you.
this is getting ridiculous…
Ruffimpact32
:::::DDDDDDDDDD
:D
I propose to hold a meeting on LAN team “Russian cheaters” vs. an average team of 1div (vs. illegal or something like this)
I think this game will put all the T’s.
But this game could have bad consequences for admins etf2l
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwajTekSAcM
tbh i won’t think anyone is cheater for a shitty youtube clip, if you want to leave proof, it has to be good proof… Even I have done a lot of times some strange things that I couldn’t believe
*d2m@another blocked thread*
>Demos are not given out by our anti-cheat team. For the simple reason that it allows people to see how the person was caught and if they are also using cheats, they can try to adapt their game so that they are not caught in a similar fashion.
Oh cmon, think of another excuse, those is not working since kondor’s ban. You’re behaving like kids, instead of accepting responsibility for your actions. Thats why competitive tf gradually may die, some teams fold by themselves, other teams that have been hard way for improving themselves help admins(AC T). Also i wonder who is this nerd, who gathered AC team !maximum of div3 players, LOL wp, waiting for every-week-ban-news now!
sry for my poor eng :p
but why i’m still writing here ? too much idiots in this thread – the same as talking to a wall (:
I’m gonna tattoo two dots on my dick so when I cum my dick goes :o
For the love of Babushkas, confess it like Payard did (his only good deed in this case), Russian conspiracy theorists can’t doze off till then.
>or if you know admins you never will ban?…
etf2l politics !!!
Sweet… Chocolate… need to be your friend to be able to put on a .exe :)
I can not believe that the admins etf2l such noobs, that can not even imagine that people can play better than them.
2 h0stage
In fact, I think politics admins etf2l this, “Oh shit, how he could kill me so? I would not have been able to! I can not believe it! He probably cheat! YES YES, HES CHEATER! ONLY Cheats can kill me because I SO COOL ADMIN ETF2L! Okay, now I have calmed down, but tomorrow banned him”
Demourge(or maybe whole px.) before news – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbcctWbC8Q0
Demourge after news – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6Jv1UnMkNM
didn’t expect from u!.. :/
No Surprises: said:
October 26th, 2009 at 4:54 pm
I propose to hold a meeting on LAN team “Russian cheaters” vs. an average team of 1div (vs. illegal or something like this)
—
I dunno what difference it makes if we rape cheaters on lan or online :/
dunno, what you win you whispered the same voice, which said that spike cheat?
> I propose to hold a meeting on LAN team “Russian cheaters” vs. an average team of 1div
Team “Russian cheaters” already got pwned by div2 team on last LAN. Btw duracell failed to show up, what a waste.
l2english plz =(
Spicke you got served bitch….Ive been saying for almost a year you’re cheating.Several pubs have already banned you just for being a suspicious player,all these demos state proof. Now go die burn and rot in hell with the rest of your cheatfriends,frakin’ bellend.This guy even cheated on pubs.
Your a disgrace to leagueplay
GO DIE!
END!
I genuinely thought BaNaNa was pretty good… I’m shocked man :(
… :/
Like Manov: please show proofs before ban a player…
what do you guys have against admins and they r gonna ban us and rule the tf2 world?
i mean they saw huge amount of demos and players and its not Very hard to catch a cheater + they don’t target someone and accuse him for nothing
still a tick would b appreciated ^^
ppl, you just not understand.
they can ban anybody and say the same shit: “”we do not provide proofs because of bla-bla-bla”.
do you agree with this?
in civilized world proofs is needed to determine that somebody is guilty or not.
it’s already have been proven over a year ago that etf2l is far from “civilized part of the world” :\
cant comment this bans thou, never saw banana playing; still have some spicke’s demos to watch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxOT8vY6imI
If you think that flick to the medic is normal, you must be fucking retarded.
Yah know, all these cheaters, do you think they are compensating for something?
Koeitje: look at the ammo count, both clicks with an empty launcher. it’s pretty usual to aim and shoot at the same time, mostly by scouts (look at yourself in rebellion as example). yes, it looks strange, but it’s neither impossible, nor convincing. will see if i find something in demos i have…
Frustration spotted =)
For me it’s really less amazing than jh’s sniper
btw medic ?
There is a chance and some situations to do the flick without cheats, but what chance that player is cheater if he never made it exept this moment?
Yes, that flick to the medic seems very unnatural.
what he said.
By the way, that medic in The Movie was me :D
http://www.picamatic.com/show/2009/10/26/09/08/5718644_518x756.jpg
Only 3 lines were fixed :D
h0stage – I’m just rephrasing what our AC team said already. I trust them to do a good job, otherwise I wouldn’t be an admin or play in this league. Please don’t refer to me as a kid. I’m 26, I run two businesses in the UK, and I show far more decorum than many of the people posting here.
Being responsible is about banning those who choose to cheat the system. This is what the AC team work hard to do. They work as volunteers. They are not paid to do so, having some respect for them would be a great start. If you feel you can do better, I’m pretty sure they’d be happy for you to volunteer yourself to join the team. Applications can be sent via email to Daykiller.
That thread was only closed because it’s a repeat of the same thread that opens up every single time someone is banned. If the AC team want to release evidence, make movies, have a party and share their information with you – I’m sure they’ll announce it and do it.
couldnt have said it better even if I tried :>
You trust them as we trust to people who are banned. And you don’t trust “cheaters” as we don’t trust ACT. So I think you must agree to compromise and show proof, in other case this is dictatorship or at least authoritarianism.
)))
by the way, i’ve just seen banana at pcw. if i didn’t know ac section recognized he had cheated, i would never think that.
well i stay at the point that banana havent cheated, i was the whole evening yesterday in stv from them, and he also played sniper, and ive there is an airhole bot too then hes using this one.
<3 mon francais copain
“GG”
Guys, I am really shocked with you! You are totally inadequate, I guarantee it! Spike did not cheat, I guarantee it too!
GG Mr. BaNaNa :) I’m really proud of you ! :)) See you ! ;x
Er no, you can fuck off and never come back. It’s not your league, you don’t have any ‘rights’ to force the ETF2L admin team to do what you say.
The reason the ACT gives for not handing out demos is perfectly valid, perhaps the reason so many tards want to see demos is because they want to avoid being caught.
Discrimination? Whats the reason why everyone is banned till mid 2010 but SonOfPi3 till 2015?
I think there are no any proof demos or methods to detect real cheaters, they looks for nice players whose ban will call comments such as “I KNEW IT! HE IS CHEATER! NICE WORK!!!” ACT can show some moments at least once to convince us that they really do something useful. And yes, I haven’t rights on this portal and can’t say to admins what to do, and yes, I can leave you, as any other user, and you must be be sure, next times more and more users will leave etf2l till it be dead.
Wait you’re threatening us by saying if ETF2L keeps banning cheaters we will be getting rid of cheaters AND cheaters retarded friends?
I can live with that.
glad spicke finally got busted.
Bash, turn on brain, just on 1 minute. To read and understand what you read. etf2l will be getting “rid” of all people who will see that bans are not reasonable. And if you wait a little it will be late to explain people why you banned all that guys, because people will be in other community.
news comments score: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK6TXMsvgQg
What Bash said.
Skill always are > any admins, any pablic opinions.
Without community it’s league are only … nothing. without people you will lose your sponsors, your *admin-GODness.
Здесь скоро слово читер будет означать скилловик.
А вот интересно ребята-админы вы шо косожопые что выявляете “читеров” только после года-полтора? XD
Хреново работаете, да. Нах вы нужны такие слоупоки?
+1 to that Bash :)
yeah tbh guys just try to not cheat next time
someone please do this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAnpIevA1xY
with this text:
“Blyat’ and what WTF, dickheads of admins, you all freaks ban without proofs, then that in movie it is not proof, it is quiet the explaine reaction of man, fuck, and I when played in Q3 and saw not such, if saw that I that after such shots u will suicide from malice, small mongrels, if not can shoot and think, go to the house for mentally backward, ppc as angers,”
Koeitje: look at the ammo count, both clicks with an empty launcher. it’s pretty usual to aim and shoot at the same time, mostly by scouts (look at yourself in rebellion as example). yes, it looks strange, but it’s neither impossible, nor convincing. will see if i find something in demos i have…
I don’t aim like that. I think you need to get your eyes checked.
ITT butthurt French paladin and Communists.
wee~
And it isn’t about shooting and aiming at the time, or aiming without ammo loaded. It’s about the way he aims.
There will not be next time. You can’t even show simplest proof, any moments with explanation. Or you have only 1 method to detect cheaters and thats why can’t show anything? So you cannot give even weak guarantee that you banned real cheaters, not just nice players.
Maybe you hope to ban people, which are very honored in national communities, without any explanation, and to keep here people who beleive them more than you? Good luck so :\
I just wanted to say that :
I won’t try to defend myself, 2 years banned, TF2 will die before i would be unbanned.
However, as anakin told me, the records incriminating me, was 2-3 months old.
So i was infinity or pancake. In these 2 cases, i recorded all official games and posted POVs on match comments. So, the “proofs” are STV from pcw. And i don’t record in pcw.
The flame posts can continue below this:
\comment
there is only one person able to own like this
<–me
oh sorry and chuck norris
/comment
Spicke medic flick in slowmo – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JFkbiUKCuk
Ah ya, can’t edit these posts. Anyways glad I’m not in the AC, from that slowmo it’s hard to tell. It indeed looks very much like an aimbot in normal speed, but slowmo looks a bit different. I have no clue how the aimbots basically work, should it just jump to the medic in that instant or move very fast gradually on to target. If it’s the first case then it’s not an aimbot, but if the latter is the case then I’m very convinced it’s one. :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ObH1PnEOmc&feature=related
LOL
Yep it’s kondors fail. Abra also was on last lans and nobody can say that he played worse than over Internet, I’m sure ACT didn’t looked to demos from lan to compare with old and verify the correctness of their solution or admit a mistake. But they cannot admit it even if are wrong, their reputation must be perfect.
D2M: (League Admin) – vertex said:
This is what the AC team work hard to do. They work as volunteers. They are not paid to do so, having some respect for them would be a great start. If you feel you can do better, I’m pretty sure they’d be happy for you to volunteer yourself to join the team.
Who is in ACT and how we can trust them?I think that they do just what they want to…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItN3zAkN4-8&feature=related this kondor’s movie better :)
Depch: <3 Fruit! said:
October 27th, 2009 at 2:40 am
Spicke medic flick in slowmo – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JFkbiUKCuk
blblbl… at this video cross going not line from first position to target but a curve line..It's totally proov using of hands,not bot.
http://etf2l.org/etf2l/staff/
Don’t let this become a witch hunt.
The comments about Spicke’s snap (twitch) aim toward the medic is not dodgy at all. He is spamming the most important choke point and anticipated a medic/other class to be there. I twitch/snap aim like that quite commonly, especially when spamming. What could be dodgy, is the way his mouse tracks the medic while he is reloading. I don’t know enough about AC to make an informed decision about this sort of behaviour. Also, I don’t know about anything else he may have done. They are just comments based upon the video linked.
It’s because we haven’t anything else to comment. ACT didn’t show any proof and maybe doesn’t have anything convincing.
“and maybe doesn’t have anything convincing.”
That just might be one of the stupiest things I have ever heard, why would they ban someone without any proof at all, get real.
Its the AC desicion if they want to give us demos or whatever on someone they ban.
We just have to assume they have proof and trust the system or else we can play in another league, if you cant take that the AC sometimes ban a player and dont give any further information maybe you just should seek another league.
If the AC should give us demos on everyone they ban then 90% of the community should say that this player dont cheat.
Almost all east teams haven’t sponsor, and if they will play better than top teams with sponsors there is reason to ban best players from that teams to keep own asses in warm. We know that this community made by top European teams and their mates, they can be cheaters, change rules to best way for them and ban really good players to take more from sponsors. All people are mercantile and there are not any reason to beleive them.
Now they can ban everybody without explanations and we can not be sure in their decisions.
Yes… it’s called the democracy :)
If 90% of the community don’t want ban a guy… maybe we should not ban him… :s
The 10% left who want to are just at 75% jealous of his skill and are influenced to kick him… true story !
Let me guess : banana seems to be stronger than you pedman ? :D
My mother said : You can’t be the best ! I think now she was right ;)
Personnally i’m agree with Awarchie, if AC can ban all people without giving any proofs, they can kick all people they don’t like just like that… it’s simply not possible to do that… think two second really ! :(
PS : “We just have to assume they have proof and trust the system” This thing make me laugh too much… It’s not like that the league will grow up… and if it continue like that… other league could be seriously take the main european league position.
Hahahahhahahaahhahahahaha Awarchie you didn’t just play the “OH NOES TOP TEAMS ARE SCARED OF US RUSKIES AND WANT TO BAN ALL OUR GOOD PLAYERS”-card
well fucking played hahhahahahahahha
(btw LOL-team are in d1 and nobody is accusing them of cheating =)
also Manov, Democracy never works with a “nation” filled with retards. Dictatorship works real nice here
Hahahahhahahaahhahahahaha Awarchie you didn’t just play the “OH NOES TOP TEAMS ARE SCARED OF US RUSKIES AND WANT TO BAN ALL OUR GOOD PLAYERS”-card
well fkn played
(btw LOL-team are in d1 and nobody is accusing them of cheating =)
also Manov, Democracy never works with a “nation” filled with retards. Dictatorship works real nice here
+1
Xzar, where are your posts? :D
anyway I saved it
“Hahahahhahahaahhahahahaha Awarchie you didn’t just play the “OH NOES TOP TEAMS ARE SCARED OF US RUSKIES AND WANT TO BAN ALL OUR GOOD PLAYERS”-card
well fucking played hahhahahahahahha
(btw LOL-team are in d1 and nobody is accusing them of cheating :)”
Must answer, LOL is not team wich can take your sponsors or prises and their line-up is not strongest in Russia.
Do you actually consider your posts thoughtfully, or do you just write after consuming excessive amounts of sugar?
Your idea that the league is run by a mercenary group of people who ban those who might get ahead of them in the league, is absolutely absurd. In fact, it’s the sort of ridiculously poor plot that you’d watch in a ‘made for TV’ movie, alone, on a Friday night at 10:30pm, rather than being out drinking beer/vodka with your friends.
The league is run by VOLUNTEERS who give up their time to help the league run efficiently and smoothly. Primarily, the people in this league play for FUN. What isn’t fun, is playing against a player that resorts to cheating and deception to further his own game. This is why we have an ANTI-CHEAT team. As I’ve already stated, they are also volunteers.
A lot of people give up a lot of their time to help this league. Writing your own (terrible) movie plots and trying to suggest that the volunteers running the league are somewhat akin to the mafia in their actions is woeful, and they sound like the words of a desperate man.
Now, if you want to enter into a discussion, try considering your responses thoughtfully and construct something that is worth reading.
you might want to train to be good. Somehow a lot of these “superstars” who rise to the top quickly end up getting busted for cheats. There’s usually a real good reason for that.
I’m not interested in reasons of ACT, they just can do something like I said, even if they catches real cheaters simultaneously. And especially we can’t believe to “VOLUNTEERS” who says that they are the kindest people in the world and who are not professionals.
Bet you got the money to hire a “professional”. The AC team has a fair few competent people who can be trusted.
So we should just let cheaters cheat as much as they like? Cool story bro.
The videos of spicke don’t look anything like cheats. OH NO HE AIMED AT THE MEDIC? God forbid someone doesn’t just shoot the ground to abuse source’s crappy hit reg for once
Sturmis, tired at the end of the day or have inborn problem with logic? I said that we can’t fully believe to ACT, so we must check them sometimes.
Before wasting your time insulting more guys here Awarchie, spend the time on learning english please.
Why can’t you fully believe? They are all nice people and have no reason a lie. A lot of them are from div- who only play for fun, they have no reason to be jealous of retards with less gamesense(tm) but more aim than them.
I WNAT TO BELIEF.
I BELIEF IN ALENS.
Why can’t no one else see it!?
don’t fool us, spike’s not cheater. this flick is possible even for 5-6 div players who have not switched mouse accel off
inb4 “it was a hair inside the mouse lens”
Don’t try to get people unbanned, they won’t unban. Coz if they unban one of us, they’ll have to reconsider all cases. I miss punkbuster which checks processes and threads, catching real cheaters…
Alas, AC team, I think you have to admit it, Russia have uncovered your dastardly plot to remove them from Europe, such cunning would avoided anyone else but the watchful eye of detective Awarchie wanna proof was your downfall. Now I’ve told you what you done wrong you can make a new website and avoid doing it so you won’t get caught, okay?
Tbfh, this is just plain bs. I’m gonna sound like the “cheater’s” friend who’s trying to defend him, but fuck this. We, banana and me, started to play together in french d5 (ye lol w/e) and i saw the guy’s improvement over the months. Oh yeah he has omgwtf moments, like we all do, but nothing more. He can be an emo cunt sometimes, and sound really bitchy, but regarding is gaming, i won’t believe, ever, that he cheated, except if he admits it (or if we see evidence, but we all know that won’t happen).
So yeah, i’m basically standing up for him, fuck off if you’re not happy with it.
wonder if I can post again
Another AC team fail. Nice.
How ’bout all the stuff like “the game is lag compensated, the demos aren’t”? Hell no! We see a twitch in someone’s aim => we ban him. Makes perfect sense.
It’s not they are not nice guys… I’m pretty sure they are fair enough to not ban all player they are hating… but mistakes can happens. They can all do a mistake on a video and decide to ban a people only on suspicious. We (procella) are all concerned about this ban… i can’t believe my scout mate is banned only on suspicious… Personnally I just want see a demo with a tick of this suspect action ! That’s all :o
Why concerned people with a ban can’t have proof to be their season near fucked up ? :(
As gK’, I played against BaNaNa at his begins with mB (French team). And followed his evolution, when I see how I became strong, and I know what he has donne to become this strong, do I can’t believed he’s cheating, and I know he’s not.
He is a nice guy, Did a lot to improve the French community, and that how the European one thanks him…
Thanks to all the one that thought were strong but got owned by him in one of his amazing moments and said : He’s cheating… I just wanna say something to this guys : FUCK YOU :).
Yes, I’m supporting my friend, and if your not ok with it, go to hell.
Btw, don’t answer this, no use, I won’t answer you back.
“Why can’t you fully believe”
cook, and others, read all posts before writing anything. I already said “why”.
i believe in alens
I don’t know about Banana, and I really don’t care cause the AC team cares, enough for me. I saw enough at watching Spicke’s demos to be confident of the admins’ decision. Was far beyond ‘amazing moments’, now take down your pink glasses and try watching it with a less biased view, like the admins.
I can’t understand why you guys are saying so many things about those bans… Anyways, it’s like in football :
THE FOOTBALL REFEREE SAYS ALLWAYS THE TRUTH… Nobody can make him going back on a decision he took….
So, gg bb c u
I BELIEVE IN FAKE-CHEATERS!!!!!1
Lol “with a less biased view”)))) paranoiac like anakin “with a less biased view’ :D
That is the best thing ANYONE has posted ANYWHERE. EVER.
A few moments ago, I saw that the AC anti-cheat system or whatever, can track banned cheater’s 2nd accounts, and now i’m wonderring.
Why can’t you show us proof’s of banned people?
– You saying: Cheater’s can adapt to they’re gameplay, create new account and continue haxing.
But how they gonna continue hax, if this awesome The A-C Anty cheat system know’s everything about new accounts?
– “That guy named Mon is Megadeath, we banned him 1 month past, he just created new account.
Srsly, i’m just trying to say, that you can easily predict cheater new accounts.
For example waffle, he got caught 3 times. Last two times were he’s new accounts.
I’m not crying about banana or spicke, because they’re banned. If really, i don’t care about this. But i see nothing bad if AC system will show us proofs because they can track new hax3r accounts and alot of people want to see proof of banned Spicke.
Sorry for my poor English, I hope you understood everything that i writed there. I will be very happy, if some unhappy England guy will fix all mistakes in my thread. That will be very great for me, cause i will have a chance to learn up my grammar.
Cheers!
Mirelin.
* I will be very happy, if some unhappy England guy will fix all mistakes in this comment.
Got a little bit confused because of SnowiE, legendary master that locking topics every 5 min.
“wanna proof”…. forget that. the ACT surely would have evidence but they just wont show you the “certain demo with the certain tick”, just to give you the chance to say once more: LOLOLOLOL this flick/kill/shot w/e was totally natural.. mouse accelaration bla bla bla… if i was you, i would finally give this discussion up. the only thing you get is.. frustration? maybe? dunno…
.(((
Btw, archy i totaly agree with you. But aniway, it’s possible that AC Anty cheat system just have an crappy 5 sec moment, and nothing more. Maybe that’s why they do not want to show us proof? :D
“He couldn’t have been cheating because that youtube clip is surely the only evidence the AC team have”
here’s the link about cheating: I am a silly Russian.
etf2l just got rickroll’d
I have never seen such an outrageous case against online gaming as a real sport-to-be. I have never seen such a bad management, in terms of ethics, of communication. The fact that volunteers run this league does not change anything, they still stand for the position they fulfil. If it is hard for the AC Team to judge, they should share proof and let their case speak for itself. I am not even talking about a partipative form of democracy – which turns most of the time into a fight of authoritarian discourses. No comparison to “real-life-live” sports stands, not in relation with referees, not even concerning cheating, because processes are embedded in law. The only relation I see is human beings making mistakes, but that doesn’t give anyone an excuse not to make the system as efficient and fair as possible
As for these extreme cases, I have no idea who’s cheating or not. One thing is sure, almost and sadly statistical, given the banning process: someone innocent has been banned. Someone who had purchased a good, implicitly signed a pact to become involmed and enjoy time with and within a league, a community, has been unfairly expelled.
PS: I’m a former DoD, TFC clan player and league admin. I have stopped playing a few years ago. don’t know most of the protagonists here (I believe I’ve met Anakin). I have no interest in defending anyone, save justice.
tl;dr
Thanks for registering 2 hours ago to share your insightful views PetiteSalade.
I remember when kids used this argument and admins would dismiss it because they were happy to have more users, taking part in the debate in a constructive way.
I’m not a native English speaker, but I try to avoid making too many mistakes and typos, so one couldn’t just make fun of my English.
I actually tried not to be insulting and wanted to construct an argument to help raise the debate, so one couldn’t tell me I was just trying to troll.
So you went for the “thanks for registering 2 hours ago”. I wish I didn’t have to answer: thanks for flaming instead of actually trying to assess my comment and react responsively on it: I would have hoped so from a League Admin.
As I said, I don’t play TF2, but I have some interest in online gaming, especially elsewhere. I used to have an account, a few years ago. I sometimes read, not having an account helps me keeping it cool so I don’t spam other users with z33t comments when I’m in a more joyful mood. Here, I was just shocked, I felt like saying a word.
I won’t even say truth hurts, again I was just hoping to bring some thoughts into the discussion. You could have dismissed my ideas by a mere “Obvisouly you’re new around here, so please check older debates because this one is over”. I would have considered it and would have apologized for my fresh arrival.
Instead, you avoided exchange by doing what you exactly (and rightfully) disapprove from other users. Thanks for reading and answering, though.
You have no clue how this league is run.
Don’t act like you do and don’t make ridiculous statements.
But he stands for justice!!11!/1
You have no clue who I am, don’t act like you do and don’t make ridiculous statements. As I said, I’ve been here before.
ETF2L rules:
“1.4.2 Cheats are not allowed
Any kinds of cheats are not allowed. Player using cheats will be punished”
That’s a pretty big & blurry clue at how anti-cheating can work here.
Btw, i love that i’m sitting next to spicke. I don’t know this player, never seen him playing etc, so i won’t be a fucking sheep and talk shit about him. But i can see all players showing Youtube links, video they have posted (or not) to proove that spicke have cheated, and … no one for me … It’s like, i had been put right next him to not make people don’t trying to know if i was aimbotting or not, cause they see spicke next to me and they’re all “i was sure banana was dodgey” or “damn he specced us and aimbotted not cool”, try to get clues and not to follow the crowl …
crow*
Wanna try again?
BaNaNa maybe because you weren’t stupid enough to upload demos or videos here yourself showing us how bad you are at hacking. the video uploaded was done by spicke himself and wasn’t posted by the AC. doubt it was their only judgement. and as pointed out above they won’t give all their stuff out because ppl still would argue that this won’t be enough especially if they are clan mates or e-friends (lolz).
<3 Norris.
I 100% agree with EVERYTHING PetiteSalade said. D2M, I’ve been thinking exactly the same as PetiteSalade since this news post was created. However, I couldn’t think of a clear way to communicate my argument. Not that it would of mattered, I’m sure you would have thought of a different, yet petty reply for me. PetiteSalade, I thought you presented your point perfectly, and I’m VERY interested to hear a PROFESSIONAL reply from an admin that doesn’t just PRETEND to be clever. I believe that with the present AC system, more than a few legit people have been banned.
Mirelin it’s going to be hugely counter productive for us to show proof, not least because the admin team is made up of people who know how to spot cheats and the general public isn’t. We get enough drama when people haven’t seen the proof, if we released it every time we’d get a lot of people (who have no experience spotting cheats) saying they don’t believe he cheated even when they’ve seen the demos.
Also even though we could spot people who come back, there’s no point making things harder for ourselves by showing cheaters how we caught them.
Seperately, some of the accusations made in these comments about bias in the admin/AC team are just utterly ridiculous, I can only hope the they were made in the heat of the moment. Why on earth would we ban people because they’re not in a clan with sponsors?
http://etf2l.org/matches/13358/
Let me guess. A team with an admin on lost. The admin raged and with clouded judement made up in his own mind that one of their players cheated. He then requests all players upload their demos. He will watch the demos and find anything that looks remotely dodgy and ban him for it. I would avoid playing the likes of CiC from now on.
The witch hunt continues.
I recorded all my official games, uploaded it and give links on games’ comments. If you find any hax in my POV, u’d better have to ban all other players using low sensi and reflex shots.
So, it seems people sent STV from pcw i made when i was pancake and CLess, showing me aimbotting (failed hard). And nobody uploaded it, gave links etc. Show me where i seemed to aimbot. I won’t be unbanned anyway…
My personal opinion isn’t that the AC system is poor. I just get the impression that the admins replying on this thread think the AC system is perfect. All the russians with poor english are getting their points spat back in their face by the admins. All the finns who are popular, and with slightly better English (yet JUST AS clueless about AC systems) are getting their points praised by the admins. Some of the points being made that you praised are terrible. My moderate view is swinging toward the other side because of the way this post has been handled.
Left
Finns who believe everyone should be banned
Moderate
View admins should take
Right
Russians who believe nobody should be banned
The admins IMO are taking a very strong left side view. They should be moderate. I get this impression from replies in this post and the fact that anyone is viewed guilty until they can prove they aren’t.
Jones, Kop is not on the Anti Cheat team, so he won’t be making any decisions on whether or not a player cheated. Any player is within their rights to request demos of a game regardless of whether they’re an admin or not.
PetiteSalade did you release demos of cheaters in the league you adminned? I’ve been searching around this morning and have yet to find a league that releases their proof of cheating, though I’m happy to be proved wrong on this.
[14:16] Hi
[14:16] hi
[14:16] are you an AC admin ?
[14:16] You need an admin
[14:16] i am a Head admin
[14:16] i need and anti cheat admin
[14:16] I can deal with ac stuff no probs
[14:16] [Kop] Hi
[14:16] [BaN_aNa] hi
[14:16] [BaN_aNa] are you an AC admin ?
[14:16] [Kop] You need an admin
[14:16] [Kop] i am a Head admin
[14:16] [BaN_aNa] i need and anti cheat admin
[14:16] [Kop] I can deal with ac stuff no probs
[14:16] [Kop] wassup ?
Yes he can access the AC stuff but the AC team make the decision on whether people are cheating or not.
But requesting all Pov’s is a bit of a sad move. Sore losers I would say. This is why I urge my team to always record pov’s. Don’t want to get defaulted or something because not all of us can show pov’s.
I’m quite certain Spicke cheated. But for example I’m not to sure about Kondor.
Ok…
I presume that convo was with Kop banana? ETF2L takes out text in .
Yes sorry it was because of “”
If u wan’t i can upload you the whole conversation where i don’t try get unbanned, an just try to help ACT to do their real job, preventing players from cheating, and not ban players.
If you tell someone to start to record pov and upload it, if he was cheating he’ll obivously stop to cheat … isn’t that the real point of ACT or they are just there to ban people whitout letting them defend themselves ?
\
ofc you are totally right BaNaNa,
the AC is dont do their job and you are the only one who got it right
oh wait, I was trapped in your utopia,
lets go back to the real world …
I have talked with an AC-admin that was rather frustrated about how everybody in the AC team had to be 100% sure that a player cheated before he/she got banned, he said that a lot more players should be banned, so you can be pretty confident that NO innocent player have been expelled ;)
I dont think this is Anakins personal vendetta against russia, its just that they have a lot of players so the percentage of russians banned isnt that high after all.
Popular finns? is that even possible? ;)
There is dodgy players in ALL countrys, its time to wake up and be a little suspicius against all teams/players, help the AC admins, we dont want a league full of cheaters.
Btw, I understand how you can detect wallhack and aimbot, but can someone explain how you detect a triggerbot?
Damn I can’t write them because of xhtml, i meant “more than” “less than” mathematic symobls
I’d like to address some comments that were maybe not directly connected to my previous messages: I personally never mentionned any personal vendetta, any racism, just a lack of clarity and structure.
Snowie,
As a TFC veteran I remember the same ugly threads everywhere over Europe. Cheaters were faster, better at this than admins. Videos proved everything to some, nothing to others, but they were public – if not made so by league admins, at least because people cared. I can’t remember of anybody publishing 30 seconds of a random game on youtube, it was about watching hours of demos, about mentioning several actions as well as a general feeling, IRC logs, whatever was needed. It was sometimes very ugly. Facing the fact they couldn’t make their case stronger with just more videos, admins all over Europe joined forces into a bigger project, which was less as much as more authoritarian: ETAC (European TFC Admins Council, http://etac.burstfire.net). It was not about democracy, because as it has been said, democracy doesn’t work well: it was about power, about representation, about establishing a correlation between people’s expectations and what was standing against cheaters.
I am not saying a ETAC for TF2 would be the answer, I’m expressing my point of view on how unfair the decision process seems to me here. About the decision, I don’t know. It would sure help if everyone could see what the AC Team bases its judgment on. I don’t believe it would give them more job: they don’t need to change any decision based on the general opinion, but it would set the record straight: people agreeing would feel comforted in the league and their trust towards the admins, people disagreeing would have the right to make a choice: stay and play (and eventually stfu) or leave. It would therefore give the admins an interesting feedback on how the community responds to their choices. More (structural) dialogue is never wrong in my humble opinion.
This debate has been running for so long, as to how the cheaters will always be one step ahead, as to how presenting the evidence won’t help the case. To people lecturing others on justice, democracy, the comparison with public cases, in sports or elsewhere, please remember that the basic principle of justice in all of our countries is based on the presumption of innocence, that one’s not guilty until proven so, and the presentation of evidence and/or the presentation of the reflexion that led to the final decision are to be made public.
“PetiteSalade did you release demos of cheaters in the league you adminned? I’ve been searching around this morning and have yet to find a league that releases their proof of cheating, though I’m happy to be proved wrong on this.”
=> But normally you need proof to judge anyone… not to make him innocent :)
We are not on “phoenix right” :D
Evidence is not to be made public on the matter of cheating.
Not because of the bullshit “then they’ll know what not to do next time”.
Simply because every single person who likes the cheater would say that they see nothing wrong with it. Drama bombs will occur and frustration will be higher than now.
Stop having the same argument over and over again if it has clearly been won by one side.
PetiteSalade as you’ve already said we’re in a lose / lose situation here. People will simply not believe that someone they know has cheated, regardless of how much evidence we release. Faced with this, keeping the evidence private is simply a more efficient solution. If a clan or player does not have confidence in our Anti Cheat team then I am sorry for that, but there is nothing we can do about it. Also, I believe a cross league anti cheat system was attempted in the past in TF2, but didn’t succeed.
Manov, I’m not sure what point you are trying to make. The Anti Cheat team has proof, but will not show it. We’re not asking these banned players to prove they are innocent, we already have proof that they cheated.
PetiteSalade,
I don’t remember you being part of the ETAC team.
I’m pretty sure ETAC did not always release proof of cheaters. In fact it was seldom and it showed them they it was a fault to do that. I’m pretty sure they also did not feature better AC team compared to the current ETF2L ones. Their etac accounts got hacked by frenchies as well thus the hackers always knew when someone was about to being looked at. in the end ETAC just tried to ban returning aliases.
Please don’t confuse my post with intentional racism. Making a massive semi-serious generalisation to help explain my point is just what I do. I don’t there is any clearer way to describe what I was trying to get at.
Of course, there are people on sides that AREN’T Russian/Finnish, but writing a politically correct argument can often be boring. I’m not an admin, or in any position of responsibility. Hence, writing politically correct passages isn’t a constraint for me.
Norris,
I never said I was part of ETAC. I was an TFC admin league of a cup-format league that lasted two or three seasons, and a fun-map league that lasted two seasons before I stopped all active duty as an admin. It doesn’t give me any more authority of these matters than any other player, I just mentioned it because I believe I can sympathize with admins when they underline the volunteering aspect of what can become a second night job. I’m not saying they suck, I’m wondering what I feel sucks, or more objectively what could be improved (nothing’s ever perfect).
I didn’t say a consensus was reached with the creation of ETAC, I never said they released proof, on the contrary I highlighted their highly authoritative-authoritarian character of ETAC. it was the best solution, or the least worse solution if you will (in the end, the “Frenchies” were banned, facing real-life judicial investigation for hacking into various private systems from what I remember).
On the flipside of the coin, everyone interessed watched demos everyone on IRC knew what was used, maybe because admins communicated on it through non-formal channels.
By the way, if a friend of someone accused tries to make an argument to defend him, that’s called testifying :) That’s what I tried to stress in my way-too-long previous post: saying someone has already been proved guilty doesn’t mean there was a trial.
So we agree, no structured rules, no public process, no idea of what’s judged (“cheating”) on what material, most of the time for the best, sometimes for the worst.
Reductio ad absurdum, just to examplify my point, if I were a cheater, or wanted to cheat, I’d become an admin. Think about what I mean by that.
But requesting all Pov’s is a bit of a sad move. Sore losers I would say. This is why I urge my team to always record pov’s. Don’t want to get defaulted or something because not all of us can show pov’s.
It’s not a sore move, Kop wasn’t involved in the process at all.
We do request demos randomly all the time.
1.6.3 Every player has to record Demos
While we’re busy comparing etf2l to a courtroom you should know I went to the doctor the other day, he said I had the lergy and I was like wat, how do you know, he said he was a qualified doctor, and I said no, fuck you, show me proofs. He told me that he couldn’t show me proofs because it’s a waste of time and I wouldn’t understand it anyway because it’s too technical, but I told him he’s just being racist against rus-err… welsh people. Then I left and took my friends with me while making a lot of noise and swearing in semi-english.
I lolz :)
But this is not a joke topic cook :D
Knowing a bit about ethics cook, I suggest you sue your doctor, because he has no right to retain any information of your health. :) Another failed metaphor
I’d say bad comparison, medecine can bring you solid proofs, that’s what a diagnosis is all about. You can’t compare it to a bunch of people called “ACT” who will say to you one day “you have cancer you gotta die”, but cant bring you a X-ray nor another test to clarify it :)
You know about this famous pic, “arguing over the internet ….”, so i won’t bring another piece of crap to this topic, but i want to express that i’m scared of being banned one day by mistake, ACT seems to be leading a witch hunt.
In order to catch cheaters, it’s pretty obvious that they have a strong unbalanced power, and this kind of power always lead to bad mistakes, even with the strongest dedication and integrity when using it.
I cant say i have the best solution to solve this, atm i cant see any except showing proofs, at least 1 suspicious record, i hope they are using more than 1 record to ban players. And let this record downloadable for a short amount of time, let’s say 2 days ?
I mean you want to know how a aimbot works? there are plenty of ingame footage over the internet. Wanna change the pattern of the bot to not get caught ? i thinks it’s kinda hard unless you have strong skills in computing. I can’t understand how a 1 shot record can make other cheaters life better….
Cheers :)
@Manov : OBJECTION §
Well done PetiteSalade.
Well done.
“In order to catch cheaters, it’s pretty obvious that they have a strong unbalanced power, and this kind of power always lead to bad mistakes, even with the strongest dedication and integrity when using it.”
This is a very good point.
agree with rude !
Its not just the system itself that is flawed, I mean who knows how much experience very AC admin has with detecting cheats. The only ones I know off that have experience with cheat detection atm is Jonni and Anakin, though Anakin is more the type of guy that detects command cheats, instead of bot cheats.
I know for a fact that when Jonni started as an AC admin he had absolutely no experience in cheat detection for FPS games. Now obviously he has more then enough experience and every player should start somewhere, but how do WE know that the AC team has competent cheat admins? I.E. have they done this type of stuff before; have they made cheats/bots themselves; etc.
In the end its all a matter of general opinion (within the AC team ofc), but all you guys do is use an ingame built feature which gives you a dropdown menu with all types of possibilities that might be handy when trying to catch a cheater. Or if you do it the hard way, by some pixel in pixel pictures, to prove that some cheater hits the same pixel over and over again. In the end its just an opinion by a couple guys ( that I trust, may that be said ones again), who used specific countermeasures to detect someone who is cheating, and if everybody concurs, the guy is banned.
I agree on the fact that showing the demos from cheaters is a bad idea, just because 80% of the community will say they don’t see any cheats being used, while for the trained eye it’s an easy catch.
However, saying cheaters will adjust themselves to the ways of detection you guys use………..COMON, its like criminals vs police, the criminals will always find a way to outsmart the police……………and since our police is using ingame features I don’t see how it’s hard for a cheater to circumvent those.
nwave lol
They should start to test anticheat tools or request one from punkbuster,etc ,because at least, if xRay or aequitas & co don’t find any cheat, they won’t ban innocent people … ACT should be hacker themselves (as white hats in real life side)or at least, should have tested all kind of cheats on a local server … and when i see chocolate telling to my mates and other people that i have admitted using some cheats, i really miss anticheat programs …
Obvious haxxx is obvious. Ban all Russian players – make it easy for all of us, so we dont need to cry here about obvious haxxx. And yeah good work admins.
That would be a little bit daft. There are some very nice Russian players around. In fact, when looking at the nationalities of each team on ETF2L – you’ll find that the nation with the most teams is Russia.
I realise your post is probably in jest, but let’s not try and pick on nationalities here. People made jokes about French players when a number of them were banned over the summer, but it doesn’t mean they’re all cheats or bad people. It’s the same with Russian players – some of them are very friendly, and they all use crazy smiley faces without eyes! ))
You said that, the whole ACT has to agree on every cases.
You also said that no one will believe his friend has cheated.
So, we just need to be friend with ONE of the member of the ACT to never get ban isn’t it
ta gueule.
Well done :-)
PhasTos: No, they didnt say it, I said it, but it was a while ago I talked to the AC admin, maybe the rules have changed?
Back to my unanswered question, how do you detect a triggerbot?
Maybe by using a program that check programs running in RAM, and comparing them to a list of cheats as punkbuster does
“You said that, the whole ACT has to agree on every cases.
You also said that no one will believe his friend has cheated.
So, we just need to be friend with ONE of the member of the ACT to never get ban isn’t it”
Owned
“Maybe by using a program that check programs running in RAM, and comparing them to a list of cheats as punkbuster does”
Enough to detect that anything except steam interconnects with hl.exe or if something exept mouse driver moves cursor.
http://www.weebls-stuff.com/toons/Shrooms/
thats how every kind of hack works, banana
ye they’re awesome, NeoN :))
Spicke, can’t bleive it :((
Brilliant! Waebi
THIS ISN’T NEWS FFS
So, what’s up now ? Did you found the software you said i was using ?
If yes, can you tell me the name ? I’ll check if it’s running in background =D