General Sandman Limit 1 – Cheater Bans – This Weeks’ Default Dates
March 7, 2009
General Sandman Limit 1
After the discussion whether the Sandman should be allowed or not have risen up we decided to set a general Sandman Limit 1 in all current competitions. There will be no complete ban for this weapon in Season 4 as the Sandman might be a good new aspect to competitive TF2 gameplay which should be tested. Anyway, there will be a public poll about this issue after the Season has finished.
Rule § 1.3.4 Scout unlocks: Sandman (limited to 1) + Force-a-nature + Energy drink allowed
It is allowed to use the scout unlocks Sandman, Force-a-nature and Energy drink. Sandman is limited to 1, so only one Scout is allowed to wear the Sandman. If both teams agree, Sandman can be completely disabled for a match.
Cheater Bans
Again we had to ban two players which were stupid enough to use cheats in official matches. Both players will get a 1 year ban.
- Simon [Profile] – using Radar + Health Display – ban till 07.03.2010
- Champion [Profile] – using Aimbot + Speedhack – ban till 07.03.2010
Default Dates
Like every season, the number of unscheduled matches by the Schedule Deadline is growing much in the last weeks of a Season. Due to this, we will postpone the deadline to schedule Week 8 matches for 1 day. We please all affected teams to get in contact and schedule your matches. All matches which aren’t scheduled by coming Monday, 23:59 CET, will get a Default Date.
Besides, we would also like to announce the official Match Deadline for all regular Season 4 matches will be Tuesday, 31st March, 23:59 CET. All matches will have to be played and submitted by this date – playoff phase will start right after.
Upcoming Schedule Deadlines
- Basketball 2on2 Cup – Round 3: Sunday, 8th March, 23:59 CET
- Highlander Cup – Round 2: Sunday, 8th March, 23:59 CET
- Season 4 – Week 8: Monday, 9th March, 23:59 CET
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This is the most stupid rule i’ve ever heard of! We play seven matches without the sandman and the two last with? And you say:
“the Sandman might be a good new aspect to competitive TF2 gameplay which should be tested. Anyway”
The sandman isn’t some ordinary weapon, it’s a huge tactical implement in the game. If a league starts without it, it should end without it!
fuk sandman.
Sandman limit 1? Wtf? Seriously, are you trying to drive clans out of ETF2L or what?
hahahaa wtf
wow that’s stupid.. all scout unlocks should be banned !
i believe that was a typical day admin decision “shut up we dont ban sandman, i wont listen to what people say”
but even if it wasnt: wtf seriously lol
If i had played only for my self i would have dropped immediately and never returned to etf2l. But now i must first talk with my mates.
There is and have been many stupid rules in this leage, but now you have reach the top of stupidity.
That’s just gay, as far as i know ppl rooting for sandman can be like counted with my left hands fingers..
Way to go ETF2L, don’t be suprised to see many clans leave the league if this shit wont be banned. :(
as long as im playing soldier, sandman is a no go!
retarded shit, why not listen to the community and ban the sandman?:/
We are talking about 2 matches, including the option to play without sandman – so why do u guys start whining like that ?
Season 5 is another thing, got nothing to do with this.
// Riemu, once again u managed to make me feel sorry for my own nationality – thanks ! //
Great decision! :)
“We are talking about 2 matches, including the option to play without sandman – so why do u guys start whining like that ?
Season 5 is another thing, got nothing to do with this.”
Exactly, so why not ban sandman? :p
The option is open to use it or to play without it, If people hate it so much dont use it :D
Good decisions by the admins as allways, keep it up m8’s :)
This is a friking joke!
“We are talking about 2 matches, including the option to play without sandman – so why do u guys start whining like that ?”
You have had over two weeks on you starting a poll about the sandman, but you havn’t… why? Because you know the opponents would have won? Like i said before:
“The sandman isn’t some ordinary weapon, it’s a huge tactical implement in the game. If a league starts without it, it should end without it!”
Why are you not listening to the majority of the community?
Your post made my decision! I can’t compete in a league where the admins are so ignorant, dictatorial and stupid as you are!
wow…just wow. Hey we could also allow 1 wallhack per team, just to spice it up you knowz!?!?
And one more thing:
“including the option to play without sandman”
“If both teams agree, Sandman can be completely disabled for a match.”
GJ!
@kop : The option is open to use it or to play without it, If people hate it so much dont use it :D
if another team wants to use it then we are force to use it. why didnt you ban it and allowed to use it if both teams agreed =)?
Masiina:
This is a friking joke!
No, this “pro” scene is a frigging joke. If your pro scene doesn’t like the sandman then what is the problem? Both teams can agree that it is banned and you don’t have to whine like pigs. Whine less and play more.
REPE MIKÄ PELLE
Yeah maybe we should leave, and play our “pro” scene somewhere else.
You admins should not change things between the season. 2 last matches are as important as every other match during the season. Why not make it like this for the rest of the season: “If both teams agree, one Sandman per team can be used in a match.”
And to be honest you should really listen to the community about these things. Arrange polls and make one night cups to test these new weapons before making new rules about it. Make the one night cup so that the both team plays one map with normal scout weapons and the other with new unlockables so we truly see if the new ones are owerpowered.
yep lets see how interesting is that “troopers” pro scene :D
“why didnt you ban it and allowed to use it if both teams agreed =)?”
+1
Seriously, wtf ETF2L.
:D I always find amusement in crusa’s comments, it’s like he’s on a crusade against the top teams :(
Yet another incredibly retarded decision. First of all ETF2L comes across as entirely anti-UKeSA (oh FUCK ME please don’t help the game, that would be awful!) then you decide that the ETF2L league (there’s an important word right there) is the correct place to playtest the clearly overpowered Sandman?
As for the likes of Crusa.. seriously, you need to get a fucking clue. If it wasn’t for the “pro” scene, you wouldn’t HAVE leagues like ETF2L. It is the close competitive levels of play in D1 and D2 which drive TF2 forward.
Engage your brain, then post again.
P.S. has anyone noticed, thus far, the only pro-Sandman comments are from Crusa (p.s. m8 u r genius) and the league admins? :)
:D I always find amusement in crusa’s comments, it’s like he’s on a crusade against the top teams :(
I’m not on a crusade against anyone. I just hate the attitude some clans (mostly from the top) that they are the ones that make the rules and games and rules should be done solely for them.
And in this case I would see your point if the sandman rule would be made without the exception there is now. I really don’t see the problem here and yet you are whining like it is the end of the world. If no one want’s to use the Sandman like you say then there is no problem since you can agree not to use it.
And yes it is fun to be a bit provocative since the top guys (look who have posted here) tend to take things so seriously…
I don’t get the decision either. The admins have a responsibility to at least explain why they think they know better about the sandman than the apparent vast majority of their player base. What is it that you guys are seeing that we’re too stupid to understand?
Regardless of merit or balance, new class pack weapons should never be introduced mid-season. Just play out the season the way it started. Isn’t that simple and common sensical enough?
At least make it that both teams must agree to use the new weapons.
League play is clearly not the place to test new weapons.
Great post as usual Jim.
http://images.starcraftmazter.net/4chan/for_forums/tactical_facepalm.jpg
We played many seasons with clearly overpowered demomen and never banned them. In my thread I figured out how Sandman could get some balancing too, I agree that it’s atm too strong, but it is NOT gamebreaking.
Until these adjustments are made, limit to 1 is a good compromise, it’s signal enough for valve to adjust it.
This comes close to not locking the rosters. And if you decide to allow the sandman it should be called “if both teams agree, the sandman can be used”
“and rules should be done solely for them.”
Then ban it from div 1 and 2, and the rest of the div’s can enjoy their bonk :< Stunning in an fps game is just ridiculous :E
Agreed with JimmyBreeze.
The minimum of tournament principles is not to change rules during the whole competition, it is unacceptable!
retarded decision tbh.
why not listen to the majority of the community?
Plz… that rule is shit!, please make a vote for every Scoutunlock with:
Sandman; Force-A-Nature; and the Drink
1) allow
2) limit 1
3) forbid
Sad day! So sad!=(
Well, the easiest solution would be for teams to refuse to play in ETF2L until this decision is changed. I think we should do just that starting from next week.
Ban the Sandman. Just ban it.
Sandman should be banned!
So if the opposing team wants to use the sandman, and we say no, who gets the benefit of the doubt?
You said “If both teams agree, Sandman can be completely disabled for a match”, what happens if both teams don’t agree? I have no frickin idea how to solve that…
Grem, it simply means that the opposite team is then free to use one sandman and that’s the cause of all the whine here. It definitely should be the other way around and sandman could be used only if both teams agree.
Seems like a fair ruleset to me. The game is evolving and there will be many more updates that people hate, or think is overpowered. I’d say to just get used to them. Sandman 1 seems like a good compramise.
You can’t have a league with a ruleset like…. Medic 1, demo 1, class 2, kritzkrieg on, sandman 0, energy 1, fon 2, NEWRPG 1, NEWstickylauncher 0, NEWSG1, NEWspyknife 0.
Because when they have completed all of the updates, that is what these rules are going to look like at this rate…
Obviously I know the issues with the sandman, but I would say to take it onboard and SHOW valve why it doesn’t work, rather than just shouting posts saying stuns have no place in FPS games.
I don’t have a problem with the other unlocks, because they give something new to the scout class and can really influence the gameplay, in a good way
Sandman has no positive qualities and in its current state, shouldn’t be allowed in any league. If it gets tweaked by Valve I might consider it being allowed though
Playtesting in official league games ftw!
Fail! Every rule in a league should be made/formed by the majority of the community. And if that means demolimit 4, cheats 1, or whatever, it should be so.
It’s so obvious that the majority want to see the sandman banned, but the admins don’t listen… I really hope that all of us who are against this decision do this…
Moose @
“Well, the easiest solution would be for teams to refuse to play in ETF2L until this decision is changed. I think we should do just that starting from next week.”
… or even more dramatic, leaving the league!
Disable for this season.
S5 enforce a 1 Sandman limit only if both agree.
Stupid rule tbh, I’m not updated on all this shit but also why aren’t teams using locked rosters you play a good clan on the first day of the season and by the end of the season they have like 1 remaining player and suck?
Gay
I had nothing to do with this decision. :)
that’s BAD then, you could have brought in some reason maybe. :D
At least we need to hear out who are the ones that voted on this decision and was the vote tight and stuff?-)
ETF2L goes ESL
Hopefully a lot of teams will see sense and agree to disable to sandman. I personally like the fact that they was willing to give it a go with at least 1 sandman, but this shouldn’t have happened until AFTER the season was over.
I personally think that none of the new unlocks should be used until after the season is over. It’s like bringing guns to the final round of a tournament in a major sport and saying “it’s ok, the rules just got updated”. Even F1 has the common courtesy to only change the rules every season.
Please use some common sense, otherwise you’re just killing yourselves and this league.
Can’t really say anything that hasn’t been said, but just thought the more voices that agree the better. At the very least the admins should have to explain decisions such as these, and not just enforce them on people. Our clan isn’t in this season, but certainly won’t be taking part in next unless the sandman gets completely banned, and I personally think Moose’s idea to just stop playing games until this is settled is a decent one.
Stupid decision. I don’t understand why you didn’t make it “If both teams agree, sandman can be used”? ETF2L is just dropping further and further behind other newer leagues in both rules and prizes. If you continue like this I don’t see top teams staying in the league. :/
really bad move there…
Ban that piece of crap called sandman. And I agree, other new weapons should also not be used until season 5.
“Please use some common sense, otherwise you’re just killing yourselves and this league.” -Rynex
Watch out admins, thats a serious kill threat right there!
worst decision ever.
why would you want to make such drastic changes to gameplay with 2 weeks left in the season? i really dont get it.
Damn right Seppo. Revert the Sandman change or I will physically kill each and everyone one of you.
ZOMG RUN.
ahahahaha.
ahahahaha
lol.
you just made ukesa the main european league.
About that stuff too, it’s not like it’s only a bad decision of not hearing out the majority of the scene. But it’s a bad move by altering the top scene yet again for different rulesets and for what, cos of 2 weeks left in the season 4. Great decision! Nice reasoning!=)
dots & lolz.
ban it in season 4, put up a poll after.
I disapprove of this message. Die admins.
How exactly is this going to be checked? Are the scouts using the sandman going to say “Hey, I’m player-x and I will be the scout using the ball” ?????
lol
I guess the admins like to watch demos
which should solve the question if it was sandmanlimit 1 :P
I just don’t see why you, the admins, seem to believe an official season is a good time to play test? I mean fair enough its TF2 how serious can it get but whats the point in putting in the effort of learning a game just for the game play to completely be changed overnight and no one gets a chance to get used to it and the next day they are up against it in a league match?
A bit of an exaggeration but you see where I’m coming from?
So many people are against this decision and i personally believe ETF2L do not want to alienate most of their community by allowing something like this?
Or maybe I’m expecting to much from an e-sport but think about it this way, if in the para-Olympics someone invented a new leg that was more like a able-bodied persons leg would it be allowed half way through the Olympics? Again a bit of an exaggeration but still… you see where im going with this?
meh, why why
MOAR DRAMA
[…] ETF2L.org […]
This is the better way to show Valve that they should change it (with limit to 1) than to just ignore/ban Valve’s additional content.
This decision needed courage, really well done.
Masses are not always right, reminds me of TFTrue to be honest.
Why won’t we just remove the classlimits right now? It’s only 2 weeks left, what’s the problem?
atreides with that argument they should have fixed the demoman long ago…….
courage maybe :P
Goodnight :)
atreides, while the decision is one of courage, it’s not the best decision right now. I would like to see how the Sandman changes competitive play, but not while I’m in a competition. ETF2L should try and not make rule changes mid season, it just feels… amateur? The new weapons are all bringing a new level of play to the game, but on-going developments, such as leagues, should stick to the current ruleset. This would save us from future updates messing with the game too much, and at least give the competitive scene time to get used to the new weapons and develop strategies on how to use them effective at a high level of play.
Yes, I hate the sandman with a passion and would love to see it banned, and whether it should or shouldn’t be, should be decided after the season is over. The same should be applied to all the new weapons.
If you’re ignoring Valve’s labour in a “ban way” it’s like cutting off the competitive game from the regular one, more than just turning off crits.
Can we see any admin responses on the main point of whine? I mean – we must finish season w\o general changes in rules.
Anyway, I dont see how new unlocks can really change the skill arangement among teams.. But its pointless to bring new possibilties for the end of the season…
So, admins, give us a statement about finishing of s4 please.
Thanks.
‘ And if you decide to allow the sandman it should be called “if both teams agree, the sandman can be used” ‘
+1
i dont really see whats the problem in using sandman…
i agree its overpowered, but both teams can use it, and actually thats good to spice things up
if u know the opponent has a very good sniper, u have a different game style, if u know they are using sandman u will adapt
honestly i dont like sandman for what it does, but its in the game now, and imo should be used, its tf2 anyway, we already have class limits, why limiting the game even more? that just force teams to use same game style all the time
and tbh i doubt anyone will quit tf2 bcs of sandman
Please make sandman banned as default
iDRAMA 4tw :)
I think this is a poor decision. The vast majority seem to be against using it. The game was nicely balanced previously.
I’ve not encountered a more annoying weapon in and fps before.
As others have said it should be only included if both teams agree, not the other way round & what happens when there is no agreement.. this just dosen’t work…
what happens when there is no agreement
Well it’s quite clear, if there’s no agreement, sandman limit 1 applies.
So teams that want to use sandman have free reign to do so.
Horrible, horrible decision. Sandman is the worst thing ever.
lol @ haunter
that time of day again, another valuable lesson courtesy of bombay tv
http://www.grapheine.com/bombaytv/index.php?module=see&lang=uk&code=9a57c25169c363293c988e02bca43b5c
we want to limit the game to make it playable, with sandman in the game it sucks.. i dont like swallowing and accept just cuz its “a part of the game”
lolz Haunter
I for one am pissed because the admins (actually it seems that a small group of the admins) decided to force their preferences on the apparent majority of the community.
No, this is not a good decision :(
Good compromise decision admins, I hope it will not bend due the flames.
sandman limit 2 please..
scout limit 1 please.
(I’m medic and i hate those bastards. ban.)
NOT.
DO NOT WANT!
It’s surprising to see this decision from ETF2L admins, since it is quite obvious that the bigger part from the scene is against the Sandman being used in league games. Things like this shouldn’t be decided or done mid-season. The place to test the new unlocks are on-day-cups or invitation pickups, not official league games.
More surprsing than the decision itself is that ETF2L admins totally ignored the scene. I like to think that even thogh there are lonely riders and people who generally hate everything, it is the team effort of the scene to push the game forward. We are as a scene in a interesting situation where we have actual possibilities to have an effect for the changes in the game.
What comes to D1 and D2 players saying that they push the scene forward is a bit retarded. Think the UKESA thing. It wasnt only the top-div players who pushed TF2 to the top. Even joking about dividing the divisions to use different rule sets is horrible. Last thing we want is to divide the scene.(imo)
Well the last time I saw a Convo on this was 5 days ago where every admin agreed on banning it completely, untill a pre season vote. WTF is all I can say :/
So thats two admins now saying they dont agree with this decision?
…
Nobody wants this, and apparantly neither does the admins. Please get a move on today admins so the ridic amount of teams playing 21 have a good ruleset to play with
funny
Kop winneh & daykiller are the evuls?!
Lol is all I can say. :D
Small cabinet decision not even including all the admins and ruling out the majority of the community, prolly approx 80-90% players. :D
Shifty & Wlv admitted already not having a part on this so are there even others from this group of admins who had no part on this decision? -> DrG,Winneh,Freaka,Robbaz,Netsky,mvp,jonni,Amonsilas,Kop,dAyKiLLeR
whiners, go cry to mom
Winneh, Netsky and dAyKiLLeR are not even competing in season 4, what i can see!
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