Highlander Season 4 powered by BlackOut Gaming

Division 5E

Week 2

Date Scheduled:
Results submitted:
by Morcar (Team §§ Tidam)

Default Win

European RIP BlackOut Gaming vs France Team §§ Tidam
0 - 6

SteamID Screenshots: A


RIP BlackOut Gaming (9) EDAS Panda, Horizon, mightymanlap, Ozzijs, Dvveh, Joseph__, Systematic Slayer, Twisted, Robeomega
Team §§ Tidam (7) Bullfrog, [email protected], Adra, L alchimiste, Alab, Auguste, Morcar
Unrostered (2) Fenril, oslo


  1. Russian Guyovich: (Surging Meat Cable) - [T-A!]LoS said:

    Hi there,

    I am not on the roster for BlackOut Gaming, but I am organising officials for them this season. Please add me on Steam to discuss any proposed match dates/times. We will obviously post them in here as well to keep a record of everything.


  2. [email protected] said:

    connect;password kikidur

  3. Auguste: df. - §§ said:

    Can we have Turtle’s demo?

  4. [email protected] said:

    Can we have Turtle’s demo?cause we never seen a good pyro like that…

    Our two merc:http://etf2l.org/forum/user/52808/ and http://etf2l.org/forum/user/42216/ accepted by Slayer

  5. Russian Guyovich: (Surging Meat Cable) - [T-A!]LoS said:

    amg Pyro hacks


  6. Systematic Slayer: [DLF] said:

    Mercs for Tidam: Both allowed
    Slayerrrr: Could you link them first
    B★RS [email protected] §§: ok
    B★RS [email protected] §§: etf2l.org/forum/user/52808/
    B★RS [email protected] §§: http://etf2l.org/forum/user/42216/
    B★RS [email protected] §§: ok?
    B★RS [email protected] §§: http://etf2l.org/forum/user/52808/
    Slayerrrr: He is in our table lol
    B★RS [email protected] §§: yes
    Slayerrrr: Hota
    Slayerrrr: Yeah he is fine

    Our pyro’s demo should be uploaded in a couple of mins.

  7. Auguste: df. - §§ said:

    Thank you for uploading Turtle’s demo.

  8. Auguste: df. - §§ said:

    What?! I have just seen that he left your team? What happened?

  9. Systematic Slayer: [DLF] said:

    Heya, I sent Turtle’s demo to Team Tidam, and it seems that without any of us knowing, that Turtle was hacking. He has been removed from the team, and it seems he has removed everyone from his friendslist on Steam and other accounts so we can’t question his further. I would appreciate it if an etf2l admin banned him and punished him accordingly. Here is part of his demo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjqAfE49Fto&feature=player_embedded

    I didn’t save the entire demo, so if Team Tidam could send the demo to an anti cheat admin so Turtle can be banned and punished accordingly then it would be really appreciated.

    Again, I am very sorry for this mess up. I would never knowingly accept a hacker into my team. Thanks to Team Tidam for being really sportsman about it all, and for agreeing to do a rematch. :)

  10. Morcar: §§ said:

    I already sent the demo to an AC admin, considering the rematch, we’ll think about it, but we might not be really into it, considering your annoying binds during match, the Ready/Not ready spam at the start of second round, and making fun of us while we were actually spoting a hacker.

  11. Russian Guyovich: (Surging Meat Cable) - [T-A!]LoS said:

    For the binds, we have a couple kids on the team. We’ll get them to shut up in the future as it annoys me just as much as it does you.

    In the interest of fair play, I hope you agree to a rematch of this game, because it’s unfair on the rest of BlackOut to lose because of a single idiot on their team.

    To be honest though, I don’t think Ready/Not Ready spam is a means for potentially refusing a rematch. It’s so non-offensive I just don’t understand why it’s even a problem.

  12. Russian Guyovich: (Surging Meat Cable) - [T-A!]LoS said:

    Also, take into consideration that your 2 mercs were happily accepted when you decide.

  13. Systematic Slayer: [DLF] said:

    And that these mercs were accepted despite being half an hour later than the match was scheduled to be, in the interests of ‘just enjoying in the game.’ I would really appreciate it if you shared the same mentality. I have talked to my team, and they will be more mature, but the binds were harmless, and I told them to quit with the spam.

  14. Morcar: §§ said:

    Okay guys, we decided not to play a rematch.

    I explained almost everything to bs.yak404 in steam chat, i’ll just summarize here the reasons. The match we played was not entertaining for us, as harmless as a spam binds and a spam Ready/Not Ready can be, it was really annoying, this plus a few bad jokes, as nice as you can act now, we did not enjoy playing against you. Your behaviour at the end of the match – before the cheat was shown obvious – was clearly unpleasant too, lying to defend him (pretending he had 400h of dodgeball, while he only had 150h of total tf2), and another few bad jokes, while we actually spotting a cheater.

    I also think you have more than a responsibility in the presence of a cheater in your team, and even more considering how obvious his cheats were. I understand it can appear unfair to you, but consider that you did not do your part, by not checking at all how the hell he could’ve been so good, which was probably the reason you recruited him.

    You did accept our 2 mercs and did not complain about our 25 minutes late, although you’d have been real dicks to take the default win here, considering we only had 1 “out of limit” merc and 10 minutes more than the 15 minutes allowed. Just note that we wouldn’t even consider asking for a default win if the situation had been opposite.

    I think that’s it, i submitted the result, as the match was played, i’d be grateful if you accepted it (as long as they seem correct to you) and we’ll be waiting for the next ban news to see if he’s getting banned or not. Good luck for the rest of season though.

  15. Russian Guyovich: (Surging Meat Cable) - [T-A!]LoS said:

    Fair enough, but:

    “You did accept our 2 mercs and did not complain about our 25 minutes late, although you’d have been real dicks to take the default win here, considering we only had 1 “out of limit” merc and 10 minutes more than the 15 minutes allowed.”

    We’re still within our rights to take the default win because it was your own disorganisation which delayed the game from starting. Think about how selfish that is to the other team who have to wait up to an hour let alone 15 minutes?

    It’s nice to see that grabbing easy wins means more to you than fair play, despite the lenience given to you. I hope it’s worth the complete loss of respect.

  16. Systematic Slayer: [DLF] said:

    If the hacks were so obvious as you claim, then why did it take the anti hack admin 1 week to verify his hacks? Turtle was a new member to the team, and I have specced him previously to check for bans and he didn’t have his hacks on for that time, but he did during the official. I do not tolerate hacking at all, I am a community admin as well as a HL team leader and I agree Turtle should get what is coming. But do not place the blame on me.

    As a HL team leader, you must know how difficult to organise everything without constantly suspecting your entire team of hacking. As for my claims of him not hacking, from my experience, I had never seen him hack. And others in my team told me about his hours on dodgeball. I was wrong. I have said this. Don’t insinuate that I was collaborating with him in any way. Because trust me, I am furious at him for this.

    Finally, your complaints about our annoyances during the match are rather petty. Especially considering it was all pre match, and we were waiting for your 2 mercs for half an hour. People get bored waiting. I have told them not to do it in future, but there was nothing offensive said.

    You can’t expect me to know everything. I pretty much organise the team solo, and recruited him based on recommendations. I specced him and he wasn’t hacking at the time. ‘Lying to defend him’ was due to me being misinformed. And I don’t see at all how I was unpleasant after the match, I gladly gave you the demo. There was nothing I said to show that my behaviour was distasteful.

    But like Russian said, congratulations on your easy win. You are exaggerating petty issues to make it appear like you have been victimised. When actually, I gave you a lot of leniency and was polite. Don’t make me seem like the bad guy, the bad guy is the hacker, remember?

  17. Alab: Tk - dd. said:

    Even new, you had to test him right ? The warmup wasn’t finished that we suspected him to cheat…
    The msot surprising was that he gave us the demo, maybe he though we were as blind as you…
    And it was pretty unpleasant to see your team defending him by lying.

    So ok it’s unfair for you but you have your part of responsibility here.

    About the binds and flamming, it was asked for this new season to avoid this kind of behviour. (if my memory is ok)

  18. Oxy: TC.Express said:

    I fail to see what you are complaining about Blackout here.

    “In the interest of fair play, I hope you agree to a rematch of this game, because it’s unfair on the rest of BlackOut to lose because of a single idiot on their team.”

    This is I am sorry to say absolute tosh. The responsibility of whether your players are legit is that of the team. If your ever in doubt about if a player is legit you simply don’t pick them up. I done this when Fix asked for a trial (before his ban) so it does happen.

    If you knew about his hacks (which I don’t think is the case) then shame on you.
    If you didn’t know then it’s still your responsibility so take the default loss and be happy he got called out in the first game he played in.

    Also I see Turtle has now changed his name to Total so supposedly he’s the same retard who got banned for some terribly obvious heavy hacks.

  19. Russian Guyovich: (Surging Meat Cable) - [T-A!]LoS said:

    Obviously you don’t understand the circumstances at all Oxy. I’ve seen Turtle/Total play in the past few weeks with some of the events we’ve ran and he used flare gun all the time. I’m not sure if the admins will pick out that he was using a reflect hack or something similar, but I’ve seen plenty of Pyros playing with that skill before, so it wasn’t so obvious like a triggerbot (Fix) due to no hitscan weapons being used until this official, same as that part where he sets the cloaked spy on fire without bumping into him.

    When I found out he had switched to shotgun for this official, I had my suspicions, and the demo shows them to be correct. It’s quite disappointing that you would even raise the possibility that we would know about his hacking.

    In the end, Tidam know they will lose a rematch, because 1 Pyro – hacks or not – doesn’t carry a team of 9.

  20. Alab: Tk - dd. said:

    Well, at first we though it was ‘simply’ a reflect hack + aimbot hack.

    So ok many pyros are able to switch to flare or shotgun and kill, our suspicions were’nt about this and i could agree that you wasn’t suspicious about that too… But when a pyro in division 5 is able to reflect 90% of projectiles, even the projectiles which arrive almost behind him, you’ve could asked yourself some questions.

    Moreover, we discovered in the demo that he obviously had also a wallhack and something to see invisible spies, are you blind or didn’t you see that on the demo ??!! It’s obvious in the demo, and for the spies it’s easy to see in game that your pyro never spychecks but always get invisible spies no ???

    “because 1 Pyro – hacks or not – doesn’t carry a team of 9″

    Hack reflect + pyro on your sentry = impossiblity to destroy it.
    Possiblity of seeing spies + pyro on the sentry = impossiblity to destroy it
    Possiblity of seeing spies + pyro with the medic = impossibility to kill him.
    Hack reflect + pyro with the medic = useless uber for us.
    Aimbot + pyro VS scout = death of our scout versus your shotgun pyro.
    Aimbot + Wallhack = follow our scout when he can’t see him and oneshoot him at the first visible frame.
    Wallhack + possibility of seeing invisible spies = never need to spycheck, always one shoot our spy.

    All these example come from the demo, i hope you saw them, because it’s annoying to see your complains about ”oh it was only a aimbot hack for shotgun and he’s just good for reflect like so many pyros…”

  21. Russian Guyovich: (Surging Meat Cable) - [T-A!]LoS said:

    Firstly, I was not complaining that it was ONLY an aimbot hack. If you actually read what I said:

    same as that part where he sets the cloaked spy on fire without bumping into him

    I knew he had more than just aimbot after seeing that. Please stop putting words in my mouth.

    Secondly (and a little off topic), but being a Pyro in a Division 5 HIGHLANDER team means next to nothing in terms of skill level. There’s loads of good Pyros on pubs who have lower or even no experience in playing the class during competitive matches, so the rate of successful reflects isn’t completely relative to the higher division skill as you make it out to be. Yes, it’s a factor, but not absolute.

    Finally, believe all you want that Turtle hacking is the reason we won. Agree to a rematch and we’ll prove you wrong :)

  22. Alab: Tk - dd. said:

    What about the partS where he moves to somewhere there is nobody and set fire at the exact place of a moving spy ? :D

    I didn’t said that a good pyro is impossible in div5, but if he wasn’t hacking, we would have suspect him to be a multi, div5 isn’t synonymous of bad player ofc, but we have to be honnest with ourself and admit that we’re not overskilled, that’s what i meant.

    We’re not afraid of you, we just don’t have the time to rematch (we have jobs, studies, other teams, etc) and we really didn’t enjoy our first match with you (without cheat or loose considerations). But i’m not the war arranger of the tidam, i can’t speak for all of us.

  23. Russian Guyovich: (Surging Meat Cable) - [T-A!]LoS said:

    “What about the partS where he moves to somewhere there is nobody and set fire at the exact place of a moving spy ?”

    I really hope you are intentionally pretending to misread what I am saying, as I can’t quite figure out how “I knew he had more than just aimbot after seeing that” comes across as me denying that he was using more than an aimbot. Lost in translation? I also think you interpret me as defending the guy in some way, which of course I’m not doing. I thought that was obvious? Apparently not.

    The time you spent going away to decide if you were going to offer a rematch could’ve been spent playing this game. I highly doubt you can’t find enough time in your supposed busy lives when you can arrange enough PCWs. It’s not like you are in UGC as well, which I could understand time constraints.

    If you really couldn’t play due to time constraints, that’s what you would’ve said initially, before claiming that we intentionally allowed a hacker to play for us, so that justification doesn’t really work.

  24. Alab: Tk - dd. said:

    “really hope you are intentionally pretending to misread what I am saying”

    No i just said that ok it happens to set fire to a cloak spy, but when he goes away and set set fire randomly to a spy, whereas he never spycheck, that’s where you could have some suspicions in match. ;)
    I don’t say taht you know he was a cheater, but you could have seen taht before, that’s all. He was one of your player, you have to assume that. (For instance, if a team got a default loose because of missing players, ok that’s not fair for the whole team but they have to assume it.)

    And yes we don’t always have time to play : we can play official matches, but often, we aren’t able to play trainings or PCWs.

  25. Russian Guyovich: (Surging Meat Cable) - [T-A!]LoS said:

    We’re actually talking about the same situation here I believe, where he does indeed head straight towards a spy and sets him on fire. I’m not criticising your suspicions during the game, as I could see it clear as day in the demo. If someone were to claim your team had someone hacking on it which you thought up until that point was legit then I guarantee that your initial instincts will be to defend that person. I’m not judging anyone who does so, or think they are in the know about their player cheating.

    Like I said, we didn’t have a reason to suspect he was cheating because this official seems to the be only time he really was using those hacks. We’ve only known who he was for a few weeks and yeah, he appeared to be a good Pyro but not amazing.

    With the flare gun usage in about 3/4 times I watched him play (9v9/7v7 events run by BlackOut Gaming), you could presume that it would be his secondary weapon of choice, and because it isn’t hit scan, along with the supposed 180 degree turn to reflect spam you believe you saw in that demo, there was nothing at all suspicious until this very match.

    I should make it clear here that I am not arguing against the default loss. It’s clearly stated in the rules what happens to any matches where a cheater has played in, so we accept the consequences for that, but we welcome a rematch and hope you take everything that’s been said here into future consideration.

    What I am trying to do is provide our perspective on the whole situation in the hopes that you at least understand where we’re coming from and how genuinely angry we are at Turtle for tarnishing the reputation of this team.

    Anyway, the ball is in your court. I don’t have anything more to contribute to this discussion, although it’s nice to see that both sides can be mature about it.

  26. Systematic Slayer: [DLF] said:

    Exactly like Russian said, I had my suspicions considering his lack of comp play and his skill level, so I did spec him a few times. He never hacked when I specced him, so how could I anticipate that he would hack in this official (which appears to be the only time he has hacked while I have been playing with him.)

    While we were in the match, I wasn’t really concentrating on his shotgun aim. I was medic, so I was concentrating more on calling and tonnes of other things. So it is difficult to anticipate. But I agree with everything Russian has said. You want a default win, there is nothing we can do about that. We are just illustrating our perspective.

  27. Zepolak: §§ said:

    Good evening,

    First and foremost, please accept my apologies for not having been able to share my good spirit & propagate a nice atmosphere with stupid jokes on that day. Having an internet blackout is a real pain and as things are going, I might not even be able to play a single match this season.
    No seriously, it hurts.

    Back to the topic.

    First, I understand it’s not clean situation when you get 2 mercs in each team. As far as I know, the match was started late on schedule, and I think the last to get in was a Tidam. Point taken, but considering people agreed to play anyway, anything related to this cannot be relevant to the final outcome.

    Now, the match is played and there’s a cheater in one of the team. Well, to me, it looks like a pain for the 17 other people. Thing is, well, the cheater’s team have to get punished “more”. Default loss, that’s a reasonable end.

    Finally, there’s the possibility of a rematch, to erase that default loss and make things cleaner, people trying to get over it and stuff ; constructive behavior.

    I am sorry to bring the news Team Tidam don’t want to do a rematch. I wasn’t here so I can’t tell what exactly went wrong but the match overall wasn’t fun for my people and they don’t expect a rematch to be fun. Actually, there was answers like “be that a default win or lose, I don’t care, I don’t want to play against them again”.
    So maybe there’s something to be done as well on the “atmosphere” around the playing for BlackOut – although I understand quite well the tension around many mercs & watching the clock. But again, well, nobody is paid to play these games, the only thing that matters is the fun, so better be friendly & nice all the time.

    In the end, although we don’t want a rematch, I do ask a default win because it makes no sense for me to seeing a situation where a team with one cheater gets the win.
    I do however acknowledge after having read the above posts that BlackOut team is clean – and is consequently actually even more hurt than Team Tidam by the cheater (if the admins do acknowledge my statements by enforcing that default loss of course). I wish to BlackOut team a quick recovery, and maybe advise to somehow bring some friendly atmosphere all the time so that when any kind of nasty case arises leaving the opponents team with all cards in hand, that opponent team answers “a rematch ? yes certainly” – which was not the case here. Again, I was not here, but there is nobody on our side willing a rematch and we are not the “win at all cost team” (see our records) so yeah, there’s probably something to be done.

    TL;DR :
    – Team Tidam asks for a def win due to cheater’s involvment
    – Team Tidam does not want to rematch. Match was not fun and rematch is not expected to be.
    – Team Tidam acknowledge the apologies of BlackOut for the involvement of a lone cheater and whishes the best to BlackOut for quick recovery

  28. Robeomega: -nobroder said:

    In your screenshot you have -2147483648 Fps how is that possible?

  29. Morcar: §§ said:

    Demo paused or playing at 0%.

  30. emb: (Site Admin) - ciortai said:

    As BlackOut Gaming used a cheater (banpost coming shortly), the result of this match has been changed to a default loss.

    The match may be replayed if both teams agree. In this case, please contact admins to remove the result.

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