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looks interesting so far

Quoted from Munky

{1} Disagree with the changed A point cap. A is a well balanced first point (only good point on the map honestly) and doesn’t need a change that severe.

{2}{3}{4} Changes to third house: Not entirely sure they are needed but can’t see any major negative consequences either.

{5}{6}{7}{8}{9} Spawn Changes: I really don’t like it. Just feels pretty convoluted and it makes second harder to hold.

The last few changes to the map haven’t really added anything since version 4 or 5. It feels like fiddling around with the pieces with no big improvements. My advice would be:

If third is too strong: Remove (or nerf) the ramp mechanic pushing the cart back down. Cart pressure is a subtle mechanic in highlander (think of upward third) and that big ramp removes that entire aspect of the game.

If last is too strong: Change Blue forward spawn to Red’s original first spawn including side entrance to attic. Would cut distance to fourth (especially as there is no strong+safe teleporter position on last unlike on badwater) which always seems to delay pushes and timing on barnblitz last pushes is super important.

Though honestly the maps problems aren’t the strength of individual points but that it feels so snowbally till you reach last and that it is pretty unsatisfying to play. And the snowbally nature got so much worse since the turntable was removed which I think was originally a (unfun+ blunt) design decision to slow things down due to the map design being wonky.

thanks for the feedback

though we won’t revert any of the changes until testing is done, be aware we’re totally willing to do so if things end up being worse/unhelpful – the aim of the changes made was to be very experimental for the sake of avoiding making minor adjustments that help with the maps flow but don’t help address the ‘unsatisfactory feeling’ on a whole that you talk about

The point adjustment was initially to be coupled with my original idea of moving the defending spawn further back, to the house spawn, same as 2nd point. This’d mean that the only thing gained from an attacker’s perspective would be time and the payload checkpoint, and that to capture the point you wouldn’t be able to sneak-cap (which was pretty rare anyway, but wouldn’t matter since the capture didn’t matter in the grand scheme of things with the spawn change).

Then we went a different direction with the spawn system (trying to eradicate that house-spawn which is crappy), so maybe the change will turn out to be a bad one, we’ll see

What exactly is the reason that you’re changing the entire map?

spawn system doesn’t seem like it adds value (for me). The spawn camping is really annoying with the soldier ducking behind the fence.
Haven’t played enough to given an opinion if 2nd -> 3rd is bad in any way. I think teams can play around with it (not capping 2nd to have their combo push 3rd hill from within and locking 3rd out)

Should invest the energy in a new map quite honestly. All of these different versions of trying to fix a map with no obvious solutions is starting to become a bit ridiculous and the more edits there are the less it looks like the valve version.

That said I tried it in a lobby (lol!) and don’t like the random new hole and completely revamped spawns. It looks like a random attempt at trying to “fix” the map with unnecessary out-of-the-box ideas.

Well this hartz video here tells me everything I need to know about the updates on this one. Lets just do gravelpit twice in the regular season and leave this map here ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡9)

I understand feedback saying ‘make something new’, and maybe that’ll happen, but we’re honestly kinda aiming for a ‘final’ version. Maybe that version won’t include the spawn changes etc. but we felt experimenting was worth it while between seasons

but yeah I’m not just ignoring feedback saying to do something else etc

Quoted from EmilioEstevez

I think moving the caps back a few meters was incredibly helpful. The spawn change and the new route from last to first is just weird and aesthetically looks terrible IMO.

I would put defenders first spawn back where it was, remove the new route from last to first and keep the rest of the changes. If people are still struggling to push last (people just need to learn how to play this map tbh, they keep playing it like its pro4 and never use any of the new options) then play with the spawn timers a bit.

I’d say this is pretty fair advice, and summarising what most are trying to say

only question left open is whether people like the defending 2nd point spawn being at last with the lockers route and new door – that could be reverted too potentially, or it could be left as is (which we’d prefer, if people decide that’d be detrimental we’d listen though)