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Dead Ringer Ban Discussion

Created 25th October 2016 @ 15:18

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Grenja

Quoted from Ze Man

if there weren’t any 5cp maps this season i’d be fine with the ban since running the invis is tf2 easymode. 5cp maps have little to no ammo pickups and alot of shutter doors making your decloacks and positioning easier to predict.

Have you accepted the Cloak and Dagger as your own personal savior?

Ze Man

water123

Quoted from Grenja

[…]

Have you accepted the Cloak and Dagger as your own personal savior?

ewww, too boring to play with :P

Grenja

Quoted from Ze Man

[…]ewww, too boring to play with :P

That’s the DR.

scrambled

(ETF2L Donator)

I love how extrasolar posted a very good argument against toast and no one has been able to respond to it, so they have resorted to either ad hominem or complaining about there being too many words xD

Quoted from Clark

I haven’t heard any strong arguments from their side, only the already mentioned “it’s annoying to play against”.

Quoted from scrambled

I mean its not like there have been many other reasons offered other than “It’s annoying”. I think that the only time that “It’s annoying” was argued was vs the short circuit, and no one seems to have defended that.

Goreston

Quoted from scrambled

I love how extrasolar posted a very good argument against toast and no one has been able to respond to it, so they have resorted to either ad hominem or complaining about there being too many words xD

[…]
[…]

If you’re referring to the post I called “word salad”, that wasn’t a very good argument. It was barely an argument:

And now you’re attempting to deny democracy on the grounds of falsified accusations heavily influenced by your own anecdotal arguments

This literally means nothing. It’s nonsense. It reads like he swallowed a thesaurus and somehow shat it back out on the forum.

If we’re going to be charitable and assume there’s any kind of coherent thought expressed anywhere throughout that linguistic abortion, it’s that Steve shouldn’t have been rude to people who wanted the DR banned.

Ok. Steve shouldn’t have been rude to people who wanted the DR banned.

Now, how does this make the DR overpowered?

scrambled

(ETF2L Donator)

Quoted from Goreston

[…]
[…]
This literally means nothing. It’s nonsense. It reads like he swallowed a thesaurus and somehow shat it back out on the forum.

In simple talk: There was a fair vote. Toast is denying that vote by calling people names, and its also obvious that Toast will be biased towards having the dead ringer unbanned. I think its quite obvious tbh.

Quoted from Goreston

Ok. Steve shouldn’t have been rude to people who wanted the DR banned.
Now, how does this make the DR overpowered?

The topic of this argument was that Steve should have told us about how the DR wasn’t overpowered instead of insulting people.

scrambled

(ETF2L Donator)

In response to people talking about voting for advantages and things. The Bureau wanted to ban the razorback in the same vote, and I think we play around our sniper more than any other teams.

scrambled

(ETF2L Donator)

sorry for spamming
Quoted from Hildreth

[…]
My words
Your words

Ability should be respected and challenged not withdrawn.

I think you misunderstand what I mean. I’ll use Sniper as an example here because I’ve used Spy as an example so much. There are situations in Highlander where more than anything you need a sniper pick. The easy way to do that is to win the sniper 1v1. However if your sniper is losing every 1v1, getting a sniper pick relies on one really amazing play, which will be even harder to pull off considering the amount of space a dominant sniper denies. The reason the that it was banned in UGC was that it is a very hard to kill a player like this.

Now if you want to argue that the razorback should be unbanned, could you also argue why the darwin’s danger shield should remain banned also please.

Goreston

Quoted from scrambled

[…]
In simple talk: There was a fair vote. Toast is denying that vote by calling people names, and its also obvious that Toast will be biased towards having the dead ringer unbanned. I think its quite obvious tbh.

If you’re going to open a thread called “Dead Ringer Ban Discussion”, you’d better have a better argument than “we voted to ban it lol”. We know you voted to ban it. That’s why we’re having this discussion.

The stupid thing is, for all the bitching about ad hominem in this thread, most of the examples people are complaining about are actually just straight up insults. The purest example of ad hominem so far is this:

its also obvious that Toast will be biased towards having the dead ringer unbanned.

You’re dismissing Toast’s arguments because of who’s making them. That’s literally the definition of ad hominem.

scrambled

(ETF2L Donator)

Quoted from Goreston

[…]

If you’re going to open a thread called “Dead Ringer Ban Discussion”, you’d better have a better argument than “we voted to ban it lol”. We know you voted to ban it. That’s why we’re having this discussion.

The stupid thing is, for all the bitching about ad hominem in this thread, most of the examples people are complaining about are actually just straight up insults. The purest example of ad hominem so far is this: […]

You’re dismissing Toast’s arguments because of who’s making them. That’s literally the definition of ad hominem.

If Toast did something other than call people names, there would be an argument to dismiss. I couldn’t give a shit who’s arguing what.

Toast

WEED
S-O

Quoted from scrambled

[…]
In simple talk: There was a fair vote. Toast is denying that vote by calling people names, and its also obvious that Toast will be biased towards having the dead ringer unbanned. I think its quite obvious tbh.

Everyone voting against the DR are equally biased because they think it’s annoying and it in some way disrupts their playstyles in a similar way it disrupts spies’ playstyle by removing it, though much much less.

How was this a “fair” vote? The majority who got to vote were high players. Where are the mid players and the open players? And how does it make sense to make people vote on stuff they don’t much about? Im not eligble to vote for 6s cause i dont understand 6s, and neither am I in HL. It just becomes random depending on what players like and don’t like to play against. There wasn’t anything brought up for the ban. If something is to be banned on the whitelist, then a proper argument for that has to be shown, theres no need to defend it when it has been in the game for more than a year. If it was so overpowered as people come to say it would obviously have been banned in season 9.

You are saying you wouldn’t care who said what, yet you are using me being biased as an argument. Almost everything that has been argued for the ban has been shown to not hold up. Your Badwater example as an example. A lot more of this is in the official thread which could be looked into if it wasn’t deleted lol.


Last edited by Toast,

Goreston

Quoted from scrambled

[…]

If Toast did something other than call people names, there would be an argument to dismiss.

Well, let’s see. He’s pointed out that the supposedly unbeatable badwater roof strat works with invis watch. He’s stated that he believes invis watch is actually a more effective play style for most spies than DR. He’s argued that the DR isn’t an instant win, and that using it badly makes the spy useless. He’s also challenged people who favour the ban to provide an argument other than “it’s annoying”.

You can agree or disagree with any or all of those arguments as you choose, but you can’t in good faith accuse Toast of doing nothing but insult people.

I couldn’t give a shit who’s arguing what.

I mean, that’s literally the opposite of dismissing Toast for bias, but ok, sure.

DCS

(Legend)
notdoggo
Dr. med.

TBH we only make these kind of decisions to re-vitalize our forums.
B)

In all seriousness, I am enjoying this discussion. Keep going!

etf2l in a nutshell

Why can`t we have an item vote ?
*Gets the vote*
Why can`t admins just force the whitelist ?

Genius

cloudy

CBT

bureau doesnt play around their sniper lol also dr ban is silly lol

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