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http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2598178&page=2

I’m not sure if he’s actually talking about 6v6, but in another post in page 3, he’s talking about why pyro’s arent used in competitive TF2.

(I don’t play mobas, I found this in SPUF)

I think it’s an interesting read. Might as well share it with you.

I think you need some basic knowledge of MOBAs (LoL) before you can understand all of the posts.

It does actually make some sense tbh, quite interesting.

* Medics become the game in skilled play. The entire gameflow is dependent and reliant on the medic, to where killing him or not becomes the central focus. This is because the gameflow relies on them to move action when all else is equal.

* Ubercharge is only counterable by another ubercharge, unless one team is significantly better than the other. Anything countered by itself creates a single path to victory.

* Constant healing/overhealing changes the entire combat pacing. This exists in WoW, TF2, and if healing were more prevalent, LoL. It invalidates attrition and removes long-term pacing (well I didn’t kill that Soldier, but he’s at 10% health and therefore 90% easier for a teammate to clean up) and makes burst much more powerful. Simply, it lessens strategic variety. As you guys have seen over LoL’s lifespan, any fight that doesn’t resolve near-instantly (Counter Strike) can easily result in no change or progress at all.

* Medics remove action from second-to-second combat. For FPS, primary gameplay loops are created through positioning, aim, reaction time, movement, map feature exploitation and matchups. The satisfaction of that encounter results in the death of a player one either side. Medics prevent that satisfaction from occurring.

* In order to make a healer satisfying, they have to be disproportionately impactful. A Priest in your War3 army can be balanced more easily, because the little Priest doesn’t have to derive meaning or satisfaction out of making the life bars go up. But when you ARE that Priest, it has to feel good to create a positive experience – and doing so when your job is resource refilling, it needs to be pretty beast to make that feel noticeable.

He’s pretty much right, to be honest.

The OP:

I come back and I start a Tf2/ Lol Healer debate. Yay

Anyways, I have to disagree with this, Morello. From my experience, competitive play in TF2, as well as most game multiplayer games, is all about strength in numbers.

If you pick of 2 or 3 team members, it doesn’t matter that their ubercharge is up. You’re team can easily split and/or back up for 8 seconds and then easily wipe the team and capture the objective. In this example, the medic has no value to the team, as the team had no damage. That is to say; all enemy kills are of equal value.

And I noticed several people earlier commenting on how airblast is a secondary counter to the uber. Of course, you respond with something along the lines of, ‘Pros don’t run pyro’. This can’t be farther from the truth. I’ve seen pyro ran as an offclass more often than any other, except the engineer.

Also, see highlander competitive play, where all the classes are used.

You bring up good points and relate them to Moba’s fairly well. However, I think the competitive fps genre, TF2 specifically, is outside of your judgement range. Understandable, considering you work on Moba’s for a living.

Morello:

Maybe my insight is outdated here since I’ve stopped watching the TF2 pro scene a few months back, but in my experience with this:

* Pyros are ran as an offclass to counter ubers, and usually ARE being ubered when they do it.

* Trading Solly/Scout for your Medic is a loss in a fight. I’d say depending on the fight, you could trade 3/1 if you got their medic and they didn’t get yours. The ability to sustain a push (as well as uber) outweighs the other losses.

* Scouts exist to sac medics from flanks, largely.

* Highlander is MUCH better, though the medic is still most important.

I do find it interesting that a high level employee in Riot watched Competitive TF2 for a while, maybe another mixup match player there?

Quoted from Setlet

….

When you put it like that Setlet it seems this guy has no idea what he is on about, I don’t know if you’re just para-phrasing though.

I wouldn’t call ubers destructive to the gameplay and it doesn’t govern a team’s possibilities as much as he thinks; using it as an example on how to balance a role in an entirely different game is foolish.

but w/e he mentioned comptf2 sorta WOOYEA

Quoted from Hildreth

[…]

When you put it like that Setlet it seems this guy has no idea what he is on about, I don’t know if you’re just para-phrasing though.

What do you mean? The OP just responded to the first post Morello did, and then Morello responded to him. I didn’t take anything out of context.