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TF2 Open Beta

Created 6th September 2010 @ 22:32

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Ripple

Quoted from Haunter

… nobody actually cared to mention that the game needs ALOT of bug fixes, fps tweaks, new features like built in huds, built in prec, etc.. this is what tf2 needs, not weapons

I agree on the first part, bug fixes, fps tweaks and the huds. Because this is useful for ALL tf2 players.

But no pubber cares about a built in prec and i’m sure valve cares at least the same (if not more) about the public-scene. They don’t complain and the comp-players are the minority.
The public players are happy about every addition, every map, every weapon. Competitive players only complain about EVERYTHING.

When i read about coldfront, fastlane, freight or yukon being shit – wtf? They are decent maps. I don’t know – but i’ve heard so many times, that a team “hates” a map because they got lolrolled a few times on it. Why don’t they start to train those maps and if they start winning it, they also start liking it. You could start bets, that if you search a pcw, you’ll be on your way to granlands.

The tf2 community should stop complaining about everything (i’m especially talking about maps, some weapons are annoying for me aswell, like natasha). All those new 5cp maps are decent ones, most people are just not willing to go through the process of training and being able to use new tactics for all those new maps. TF2 can’t consist of 2 maps forever.

Let’s just take yukon: All those ppl complaining about the cl2, you can do so much things on this map, since its middle is really big. Snipers have a lot of space, spies can move around unseen. But all the people are too lazy to try out new things on maps like yukon. Just because their 2xScout, 2xSoldier, 1xDemo and 1xMedic doesn’t work instantly, they call the map shit.

Only my pov, you are free to do what some you can do best. Rage and troll about my opinion.

Haunter

“pubbers” have more videos on youtube than competitive players, so yes, they care if tf2 had auto record.


Last edited by Haunter,

skinnie

TCM

stop complaining

Azdean

WTH!?

Pubbers do care about auto record, There’s a reason valve is making a new recording tool.

As for the maps yes I agree they are all good maps, the American’s play those maps so why the hell aren’t we?

Were no better than them, if they can play match’s on these maps then they have already been proven that they are good for competitive play but the narrow mindedness of some of the players in this community stop us from being able to play them.

And skinnie if you don’t have any useful input for the thread please don’t bother posting.

RE: Weapon Loadout freedom

IMO, If people are allowed to choose what they want, then they will judge how viable the loadout decision is by two main criteria; how fun something is to use and how effective it is towards the eventual aim of the match (eg winning). I would say your average pub player would want to use what they enjoy using and what feels more natural to them, as their main aim in playing TF2 is enjoying themselves (same as all of us really)

Now if we assume that a player regularly plays with a weapon, then they will get more and more used to it, and in most cases, more proficient with this weapon, thus when they make the decision to enter competitive they have a leaning towards a particular weapon.

Competitive players still want to have fun, but the experience is infinitely more competitively inclined, which generates fun in its own right. If someone is good with the DH, is that simply because they are skilled with that weapon or is it because they are good with it?

I believe that if given the choice and enough experience, a competitive player will pick the weapons which is most effective first and foremost, and what they enjoy the most as a secondary principle. If these are the same thing, and the use of the weapon is viable in team play, then it should be used, as it maximises the effectiveness of the original, and occasionally, the team. Every weapon has a strategic counter, and the opposing team should learn to adapt in a match (which I believe would increase the depth of a very shallow game)

Those players who seem to have severe choice anxiety, or find the unlocks an abhorrence can agree amongst themselves what they want to use, and can agree with the opposite team not to use them, but an outright banning of these weapons can in some cases, limit effectiveness and enjoyment of the individual and the team, and stifles the fluidity, creativity and prosperity of potential tactics

tl;dr- Let valve do the balancing, you do the playing

RE: Class Loadout freedem

(Building on the points established in the above section)
Certain classes are more useful in certain areas, as such is their specialisation, and if a player is effective with this class (more so then another class) then he should be allowed to use it (as mentioned above).

However, I do think the 2-map-4-class mindset of the game is a stagnation waiting to happen, something should be done about the maps (next section) and the other classes should be made as equally viable, as a whole, not in specific situations (if they’re not already) as each class has a real diversity of ability and role, and it is true that competitive TF2 may not be the best situation for many of these classes, in which cases tweaks or unlocks should be used to give them the duplicity needed to participate at such a level, in an effort to grant freedom and depth to a competitive scene that sorely lacks it.

RE: The Maps

Sure 5CP maps are fine and well, but lets think about the maps of TF2 in terms of depth in comparison to its ugly whore sister, CSS. in a 5 CP map, each team only has 1 point to attack and defend at one time, limiting the kind of diversity in strategy available. But whats that? theres a few different ways to attack middle on Granary? I remember in competitive CSS, you could go into massive depth on how to throw grenades into each corner. Sure there are slightly skewed versions of the same tactics, but on the whole, what seperates each game of tf2 from another? you push 3 points or so and somebody wins.

Now steel seems to attract a lot of flak, but it is possibly the official map with the most depth that TF2 possesses, as there is always 2 points to attack (excluding the instance of when you’ve capped all the other points) and capping each point dynamically changes the eventual goal of the map (eg capping last & winning). When I have played steel competitively, each match feels different (comparitive to blandlands) and more classes are viable.

Of course, one of the main differences between CSS and TF2 is the addition of the ubercharge. When a team attempts a push in CSS, then the opposing team has ample time to rearrange their team to counter that threat, hypothetically enabling them to cover 2 points at once. In TF2, if you push a point as a full team with uber (this part is regarding maps where there are multiple points to attack, such as Gravel), and they have a split force or do not possess a medic in uberchargeable vicinity (ofc skill sensitive) then it is too hard to organise a proper defence (ofc, the ubercharge not only quashes superior skilled defence ((as i said skill sensitive)) but it also slows down the pace of the game, decreasing the effective dynamicity)

Now if maps in TF2 were rearranged so that the defenders knew how the other team was going to attack, and had ample time to rearrange themselves in time (obviously not required as heavily in 5 CP, as you know where they are going((read the shallow bit again))), then the bouts would be more skill and tactics-centric, instead of allowing the uber to play god.

Anyway, i have plenty more to say, but i’ll let you pick the holes in the arguments ive put here first. Many of the things ive said here arent actually what i believe, just arguments that may or may not have already been suggested on this thread, trying to get some discussion going (y’know what forums are for)

Take it easy lads,

Chaplain

skinnie

TCM

Quoted from Azdean

Pubbers do care about auto record, There’s a reason valve is making a new recording tool.

As for the maps yes I agree they are all good maps, the American’s play those maps so why the hell aren’t we?

Were no better than them, if they can play match’s on these maps then they have already been proven that they are good for competitive play but the narrow mindedness of some of the players in this community stop us from being able to play them.

And skinnie if you don’t have any useful input for the thread please don’t bother posting.

my post was as useful as the 2 posts above

Skyride

DUCS

I looked at this thread this morning at about 8.30am just before I left for college.

I just get back and find 6 pages of arguing.

nuff said really.

Azdean

WTH!?

Quoted from Skyride

I looked at this thread this morning at about 8.30am just before I left for college.
I just get back and find 6 pages of arguing.

nuff said really.

More of a debate really, it’s not like were trying to kill each other. People have brought up some very good points that really do need addressing.

djc

d2f~

literally re-enact a 6v6 match in real life. equip rocket launchers and pipe bomb launchers and go to war to determine whether tf2’s future is vanilla or caramel or chocolate.


Last edited by djc,

Norrland3000

Great to have something to read. Keep going!

Spike Himself

TC

Quoted from Azdean

People have brought up some very good points that really do need addressing.

It’s just a pity how this community seems incapable of progressing to the stage beyond mere discussion; i.e. actually doing something :(

InFlam0r

You can change the game all you want but i think you will not get more pub players to play comp. A pub player plays whenever he wants, not when the team or the league wants him to play.

About the 40/64 teams of the esh cup, what is the point for joining as a div 6.5.4 team? Everybody knows that either dig, tcm or eps will get the 500pounds

jgmaster

BM

Quoted from InFlam0r

About the 40/64 teams of the esh cup, what is the point for joining as a div 6.5.4 team? Everybody knows that either dig, tcm or eps will get the 500pounds

Practice/a change to play teams you may otherwise not get the change to play.

djc

d2f~

practice isn’t an incentive because practice clan wars exist, and while there may be some novelty in OMG IT’S DIGNITAS, it definitely ends after about 8 minutes, coincidentally right when they finish wiping you.

the only reason div4-6 teams would have to join ESH is because they understand that supporting tf2 is a Good Thing and are willing to sacrifice their time/effort/perhaps fun to support it. most div4-6 teams really will not do those three things.

InFlam0r

A game against a slightly higher skilled team is a practice, getting steamrolled by dig on badlands is a waste of 10min playtime and 30min waitingtime.

The low teams should waste their time so the top teams get more prizemoney?


Last edited by InFlam0r,

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