Highlander Season 15: Mid Playoffs

Final

Round commencing: -

Schedule deadline: | Result deadline:

Date Scheduled:
Results submitted:
by ETF2L Staff

Default Win

Poland Semicolon vs UnitedKingdom Reverie Gaming
6 - 0

SteamID Screenshots: A B C D E F

Players

Semicolon (9) MuodyM, czczz, Wonszu, zinneR, Sikky, Zarker, T.J aka Kacperski75, Barthiz, Houston
Reverie Gaming (9) Azrael, Jack, Dark_time, Divider of Worlds, AlesKee, dwo, Satan, Ja, Sebbo
Unrostered (1) CoCoBaer

Warnings


225 Comments

  1. ETF2L Staff said:

    Welcome to Highlander Season 15 Mid Grand Finals

    This match will be played as a best-of-three, all stopwatch maps will be played as best-of-three as usual.

    Maps will be decided using the following Map Elimination System:

    Team A bans a map
    Team B bans a map
    Team B picks 1st map
    Team A picks 2nd map
    Reverie Gaming picks 3rd map

    As the higher seed Reverie Gaming can decide if they want to begin the pick/ban as “Team A” or if Semicolon have to.

    If you have any questions make sure to contact the admins as soon as possible.

    Good luck for both teams!

  2. Divider of Worlds: RG? said:

    Open Sesame 3rd map ;-;

  3. zgd: 2MPM)) said:

    will hot

  4. AlesKee said:

    https://youtu.be/qMBieuazBCc

  5. MuodyM: (o)> said:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uvaPRA6wJ4

  6. Divider of Worlds: RG? said:

    Divider of Worlds: we pick team a
    Divider of Worlds: we ban coalplant
    sikky: we ban steel
    sikky: and we pick gully
    Divider of Worlds: we pick Badwater
    Divider of Worlds: we pick upward

    Gullywash, Badwater and Upward

  7. Blanc: NEETs said:

    hellish doesn’t lose

  8. supra: pngwn - EF2L said:

    go go PROland

  9. Logic: TUB said:

    Divider to SLAM

  10. crazy: pngwn said:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XPH3iISovI

  11. Ja: GD said:

    Ja

  12. chadful said:

    Semicolon minet

  13. chadful said:

    дивидер будет доминировать

  14. poy: praise - gaeta said:

    Дивидер оф блин

  15. Kravech_xd: +3 said:

    Houston will win

  16. MoreBuckets!: EPIC! B) said:

    No balls to pick steel eh?

  17. Stan: (o)> - EF2L said:

    Ciekawe czy tym razem polaczki tez wygraja default winem

  18. supra: pngwn - EF2L said:

    @stan na pewno przynajmniej zagrają, nie tak jak my na ostatnim scrimie
    cast pls?

  19. Magistr: woke said:

    REBLAS TAKE MY ENERGY

  20. deli: GODRAF said:

    gg ez dwo free win

  21. mental: 46DPM - gaeta said:

    Aleskee to take revenge for S13 and finally win Mid, Divider to post a whole monologue afterwards about team tactics, why he is definitely a Premiership engi and why Dark_time plays instead of him.

  22. Jack: GD - RG? said:

    stv: connect wilhelm.fakkelbrigade.eu:27130; password tv

  23. Divider of Worlds: RG? said:

    http://etf2l.org/forum/user/113366/
    default merc

  24. Ja: GD said:

    GG

  25. TimTum: (ETF2L Donator) - LvG - regretful said:

    is CoCoBaer even allowed to default merc in mid since he has ugc plat experience which is high?

  26. Ja: GD said:

    was Ja

  27. Jack: GD - RG? said:

    http://logs.tf/2022914 & https://logs.tf/2023030

  28. stexer: .Qc` said:

    Aleski poggramp

  29. Mr British: pizza said:

    Combined: http://logs.tf/2023040

  30. Divider of Worlds: RG? said:

    TimTum, yes, he hasn’t played 3 matches there

  31. stexer: .Qc` said:

    TimTum coco isn’t on a plat roster currently and what divider said above so it’s fine.

  32. Satan said:

    GG, he took us time to wake up

  33. ETF2L Staff said:

    Dear teams,

    It has come to our attention that the default merc used by “Reverie Gaming” was not eligble to play in a mid tier game due to having previous experience in UGC platinum. Additionally the merc was not presented before the start of the game.

    1.4 One mercenary allowed by default and up to 3 mercenaries if the opponent agrees
    One mercenary is allowed by default and up to 3 mercenaries are allowed if the opposing team agrees. In order for your mercenary to be allowed by default, he cannot be more experienced than the tier the match is being played in. Experience in other leagues is included. Opponents can allow exceptions. To use more than one mercenary, you will need specific approval from the opponent for each mercenary.

    6v6 experience is considered equal to highlander experience, for Season 15 we will look at 6v6 seasons 26-29. Other leagues are included in experience. UGC HL Plat is considered to be high and as such players with plat experience are not allowed to default merc in mid, Gold and Silver are considered to be Mid. This applies to all regions of UGC. We do not count UGC 6v6 or 4v4 experience.

    Due to using an unapproved merc the game will be defaulted in favor of “semicolon”.

    For any questions please visit http://etf2l.org/support/

  34. Divider of Worlds: RG? said:

    Ja: OK :)

  35. Houston: MLYN - SENS said:

    dobra, łatwo

  36. Galax said:

    Stan: penguins – EF2L.org said:

    Yesterday, 10:44

    Ciekawe czy tym razem polaczki tez wygraja default winem

  37. Stan: (o)> - EF2L said:

    SKAD JA TO WIEDZIALEM XD

  38. Quader: pngwn said:

    Poljaki

  39. TimTum: (ETF2L Donator) - LvG - regretful said:

    Second default win for Wonszu and co. in grand finals within 1 month

  40. Sebbo: TBA - SENS said:

    1 match in plat ok

  41. Kemor: ; said:

    Sikky klaśnie w kolano ze śmiechu jak się obudzi

  42. Chasing said:

    “Merc was not presented at start of game”

    Divider of Worlds: vroom – Ja said:
    Yesterday, 20:25

    http://etf2l.org/forum/user/113366/
    default merc

  43. AlesKee said:

    sad nigga hours

  44. Included_Middle: nufcZONE - JOEYO said:

    This would never happen if moist was head admin :/ #MoistForHeadAdmin

  45. Wonszu: (o)> - ; said:

    @TimTum the funniest thing is i didnt put any effort into getting boty of these

  46. Wonszu: (o)> - ; said:

    both*

  47. Houston: MLYN - SENS said:

    it’s a fucking cancerlander, no one cares, get over it

  48. sup3rfr3ddy: GD - Dr. med. said:

    tfw you deny high experienced players 2 weeks before but then go ahead and get an unapproved platinum experienced player :thinking:

  49. aychi: woke said:

    I thought anything under 3 matches didn’t count when it comes to a default merc.

    “A player counts as “experienced” in the tier if, during the current season or in the prior three seasons, they played three or more officials in that tier.” -S15 Rules

  50. Ja: GD said:

    ^ 1 match in plat, 1 match in high.

  51. Ja: GD said:

    Was also presented around 2 minutes before match started.

  52. sup3rfr3ddy: GD - Dr. med. said:

    VR. AlesKee #RoadToGlobal dEfAulT
    VR. AlesKee #RoadToGlobal xd

  53. Logic: TUB said:

    according to ETF2L 2 > 3

  54. Ja: GD said:

    CoCoBaer has played one game in plat, UGC Season 23 on October 9th, and one game in ETF2L high December 14th. 2 games, not experienced according to ETF2L rules. If admins cared at all they can check CoCoBaers logs themselves and compare them to the dates the UGC matches were played on.

  55. Ja: GD said:

    2 is the new 3.

  56. sup3rfr3ddy: GD - Dr. med. said:

    The experienced part only seems to count for ETF2l, though, they did not copy it in the match comms here. And his PLat experience is clearly visible on his ugc profile since it is shown there.

  57. Azrael said:

    The rules don’t say it’s only for ETF2l, they just say “A player counts as ‘experienced’ in the tier if, during the current season or in the prior three seasons, they played three or more officials in that tier”, if that doesn’t apply to UGC then it should state that

  58. stexer: .Qc` said:

    Wow, gratz poland. Did you receive your warning from using high merc in semis yet?

  59. Wonszu: (o)> - ; said:

    No, we didnt, why are you asking? Is it too hard to check on matchpage mad boi? ;)

  60. Houston: MLYN - SENS said:

    stexer mad

  61. poy: praise - gaeta said:

    Top 10 anime plot twist

  62. AustinN: Brexit - VR said:

    Included_Middle: (=゚・゚=) – Leila+8 said:
    Today, 14:51

    This would never happen if moist was head admin :/ #MoistForHeadAdmin

    19:46 – o5.AlesKee: id like to take this moment to thank the oink5 organisation for making this possible

  63. Mr British: pizza said:

    @sup3rfreddy From Highlander Season 15 Rules 1.4: “UGC HL Plat is considered to be high and as such players with plat experience…” – due to the use of the word “experience”, I would argue the definition of “experienced”, from the same rule, applies. That is to say “A player counts as “experienced” in the tier if, during the current season or in the prior three seasons, they played three or more officials in that tier.” applies to plat and high combined.

    That is my interpretation of the rules, as they are written.

  64. Sikky: WPIERDOL - ; said:

    ^ ;-)

  65. Klin: FROG - SENS said:

    yeah those rules are not fully clear about this, but i’d side w/ british on this one. dont think this qualifies a default

  66. aychi: woke said:

    What British said.

    I hope Reverie get their deserved win.

  67. ETF2L Staff said:

    1.4 One mercenary allowed by default and up to 3 mercenaries if the opponent agrees

    One mercenary is allowed by default and up to 3 mercenaries are allowed if the opposing team agrees. In order for your mercenary to be allowed by default, he cannot be more experienced than the tier the match is being played in. Experience in other leagues is included. Opponents can allow exceptions. To use more than one mercenary, you will need specific approval from the opponent for each mercenary.

    A player counts as “experienced” in the tier if, during the current season or in the prior three seasons, they played three or more officials in that tier. For example, for Season 13 experience, we will look at matches during season 13, as well as games in Season 10, 11, and 12. If a player is on a roster of a team in a higher tier than the match in question, he cannot be claimed as a default merc.

    6v6 experience is considered equal to highlander experience, for Season 15 we will look at 6v6 seasons 26-29. Other leagues are included in experience. UGC HL Plat is considered to be high and as such players with plat experience are not allowed to default merc in mid, Gold and Silver are considered to be Mid. This applies to all regions of UGC. We do not count UGC 6v6 or 4v4 experience.

    As their seems to be a lot of confusion about this rule some clarification seems in order. Since UGC has no way of tracking which players played a match, being rostered on a team that played a full season is counted as experience in the division they played in. The three game threshold therefore can’t be applied since we have no way of telling who played the match in platinum.
    Logs are not a failproof option to cross reference with all the teams games. They can be renamed, edited and removed.

  68. sup3rfr3ddy: GD - Dr. med. said:

    Good explanation, just what I thought, too

  69. Klin: FROG - SENS said:

    rip

  70. mental: 46DPM - gaeta said:

    UGC HL Plat is considered to be high and as such players with plat experience are not allowed to default merc in mid.

    Clearest rule ever.

  71. Azrael said:

    actually we can prove he didn’t play more than one match, if you go to the team former members page on ugc (https://www.ugcleague.com/team_page.cfm?clan_id=19561) you can clearly see that CoCoBaer was only rostered for two days, from the 8th of October 2017 to the 10th of October 2017, between which only one official was played, as can be seen on the teams match history (https://www.ugcleague.com/team_page_matches.cfm?clan_id=19561)

  72. TimTum: (ETF2L Donator) - LvG - regretful said:

    People defending a team that had a top high heavy switch to his mainclass in the semi finals and finals and wanted to use Mystt as scout merc in the grand finals even though they denied Mystt when another team wanted to get him as a merc in the quater finals because ‘he has played high 6s, so I was denying him as a high merc’ :thinking:

  73. Mr British: pizza said:

    @mental They redefined the term “experienced”, hence experience means something different here.

  74. mental: 46DPM - gaeta said:

    cocobaer is on every match page of the UGC Platinum team’s roster he’s on, so technically, he has played every game that team has played
    #blameUGC #dontblameETF2L

  75. AustinN: Brexit - VR said:

    “UGC HL Plat is considered to be high”, doesn’t matter whether he played the entire season or didn’t play at all; within UGC. If he was rostered in a plat team then due to UGC not displaying the amount of matches the player actually played, ETF2L has to assume that he played the entire season.

    Heads up for the future, for important games (such as those within playoffs), always check with admins whether or not a merc is actually allowed to be classed a def merc. However when doing this try and ask multiple admins as some “specialize” in hl and some in 6s as can be seen by the following match page if you really want to read through it (http://etf2l.org/matches/70624/)

    Put simply if you have an admin’s verification then you really cant go far wrong

  76. Klin: FROG - SENS said:

    @timtum i wouldn’t call it defending; regardless of what they have done before, we’re trying to make the rules as clear as possible to get the deserved winner, whether that be the poles or reverie.
    they’ve put forward their proof now, so we’ll see who wins i guess

  77. mental: 46DPM - gaeta said:

    Their proof has already been dismantled before: log don’t suffice and cocobaer is on every match page.

  78. sun: SENS said:

    This is ETF2L though? This is not UGC the two Competetive Leagues are not related what so ever. Really really unfair imo

  79. Ja: GD said:

    What Az said, how can you even try to defend against that, ET2FL admins? I can also send EVERY log from EVERY match CoCoBaer’s UGC team played in Season 23, but since they can be ”tampered” with that doesn’t count, right? Dumb, fix your rules.

  80. Adje: BMS said:

    Funs: 7. – S-O said:
    Mon 19 Sep 2016, 15:43

    yall pretending like there’s a difference between high and mid highlander 😂😂👌👌
    prem is basically mid 😂😂

  81. Azrael said:

    as I said in my previous comment, we can prove, using the UGC website, that he only played one match, by comparing the number of days he was rostered (two, between the 8th and the 10th of october 2017) and the dates of the matches, played, of which only one was played between those dates (the 9th of october 2017). if they choose to ignore this clear evidence that he has only played one match, and therefore by their own definition of experience (which does not state applies to only etf2l, and the only reasoning for them saying they can’t use it for UGC is a lack of proof of matches played, which I have just provided) then they’re clearly going against their own rules, at which point why even bother having them in the first place

  82. ducky: ..d1ck said:

    LOL

  83. sup3rfr3ddy: GD - Dr. med. said:

    “Since UGC has no way of tracking which players played a match, being rostered on a team that played a full season is counted as experience in the division they played in. The three game threshold therefore can’t be applied since we have no way of telling who played the match in platinum.” The rule was clarified.

  84. Azrael said:

    “The three game threshold therefore can’t be applied since we have no way of telling who played the match in platinum” it was clarified with this, and as I have just provided quite clear evidence of him only playing one match, they can’t say they can’t apply the three game threshold in this case because of “no way of telling who played the match in platinum”, as I’ve just shown he only played one using UGC’s own website

  85. Ja: GD said:

    @sup3rfr3ddy They made up that rule on the spot, that quote is NOWHERE to be seen on the official ETF2L Highlander Season 15 rules.

  86. Logic: TUB said:

    if a single game counts as UGC Plat exp and prevents someone from playing in Mid that’s actually stupid

  87. mental: 46DPM - gaeta said:

    Divider of Worlds: vroom – Ja said:
    Yesterday, 20:25

    http://etf2l.org/forum/user/113366/
    default merc

    Default merc was presented after the game started. :shrug:

  88. AustinN: Brexit - VR said:

    Following on from my previous comment and supporting sup3rfr3ddy

    I don’t understand why people dont get that the three game rule only applies to ETF2L Experience. The way they analyse UGC experience is as follows

    -Looking at CoCoBaer Profile
    -Sees he was rostered in a Platinum Highlander Team
    -Therefore as the ETF2L Rules clearly state UGC Plat = ETF2L High
    -This means that CocoBaer is a high player and cannot merc in a MID; yes mid is below high if I need to make this as clear as possible (coco lft high??)

    Okay I admit this is pretty retarded and I personally do feel for Az as he does not deserve this shit fest. Side not; I am just tryna make this as clear as possible (While tryna beat the S13 Mid Finals comment count)

  89. Ja: GD said:

    @mental Game started around 20:30, and ended 21:09. 2 pauses inbetween.

  90. mental: 46DPM - gaeta said:

    @Ja Match page says “Scheduled: Yesterday, 20:15”

  91. Bayor: MLYN said:

    https://youtu.be/9CS7j5I6aOc?t=6

  92. Mr British: pizza said:

    @Austin The use of the word “experience” implies the use of the redefined “experienced”. Hence, the three game rule should apply, according to the written rules. I know it can’t be, which is why it should be changed to suit the imposed rules. You shouldn’t have to know that 1) UGC doesn’t require steam ID, and only uses logs, 2) logs can be altered, and 3) ETF2L doesn’t accept logs as proof, just in order to infer the correct rules.

  93. Jack: GD - RG? said:

    I hate adding stuff to this, but I will also state my opinion. First

    Additionally the merc was not presented before the start of the game.

    is not true. Divider wrote

    Divider of Worlds: vroom – Ja said:
    Yesterday, 20:25

    http://etf2l.org/forum/user/113366/
    default merc

    Where you clearly can see 20:25 as time where he presented the merc. You can feel free to either check logs.tf or the for sure untampered server logs at https://serveme.tf/uploads/76561198092238060-780225-213-20180417.zip where you can see in the file l0511011.log

    L 05/11/2018 – 20:29:07: Tournament mode started
    Blue Team: Ja
    Red Team: RED

    that the game started multiple minutes after Divider wrote about the merc. If we compare it to the rules

    Use the match page to present mercenaries and ask for allowance. Even the default merc has to be presented, so that your opponents can make sure he is not too experienced. If you wish to contest the default allowance of a mercenary, please contact an admin (support page), so that he may decide whether or not the mercenary is too experienced.

    It doesn’t state anywhere when or even if before the game the merc has to presented. We presented him before the official game start in any case. CoCo first joined

    L 05/11/2018 – 20:18:54: “CoCoBaer” connected, address “0.0.0.0:27005”

    Meaning the enemy had roughly 10 minutes time to complain about the merc. To conclude they had the chance to

    so that your opponents can make sure he is not too experienced

    meaning the enemy accepted him as a default merc. Even IF he was not allowed to be a default merc, the enemy did not complain about him nor denied him – so as far as I would understand it CoCo would have counted as an allowed merc – no matter the experience because the enemy did not ” contest the default allowance of a mercenary”.

    Now on to CoCo not being a default merc.
    The rules state

    A player counts as “experienced” in the tier if, during the current season or in the prior three seasons, they played three or more officials in that tier. For example, for Season 13 experience, we will look at matches during season 13, as well as games in Season 10, 11, and 12. If a player is on a roster of a team in a higher tier than the match in question, he cannot be claimed as a default merc.

    and

    Other leagues are included in experience. UGC HL Plat is considered to be high

    .
    Where I would understand that CoCo would be considering “experienced” in high if he played 3 or more officials in that tier. So he played high here http://etf2l.org/matches/71280/ – meaning it is 1 game.
    And he was in this platinum UGC team https://www.ugcleague.com/team_page.cfm?clan_id=19561 which states that CoCo was a member during this time

    Member – (Oct 8, 2017 – Oct 10, 2017)

    .
    During this time the team played only 1 official look at what Azrael wrote. Meaning he has 2 games of “experience” in high. Which means he is eligible to default merc.

    And considering logs to be tampered with. You can always see when a log was uploaded and you can’t edit the log but only the title and map. Meaning the already uploaded logs are not tampered with. Unless you want to tell me we something multiple months ago with a different team.

  94. Lord Kamina: woke said:

    Ecksdee

  95. aychi: woke said:

    100 comments woop

  96. AustinN: Brexit - VR said:

    @Brit, ya don’t worry I know it should apply but look at it from admins perspective

    They cant go through logs and keep track of every single players experience so to simplify things they just say if that player was rostered then they are able to play at the level

    Based on this Samuel Yang (known as Samii to the plebs) will be a top plat player, therefore high gamer next season

  97. Klin: FROG - SENS said:

    but the tough thing comes when they can prove that cocobear wasn’t too experienced. so either
    the word experienced is always used with the redefined definition
    or it changes depending on league, which would be a fallacy in the rules

  98. Mr British: pizza said:

    @Austin I was suggesting rewriting the rules to actually mention the practice of assuming division from UGC, no matter how many games are said to be played. E.g. “A player counts as “experienced” in the tier if, during the current season or in the prior three seasons, they played three or more officials in that tier. This applies to ETF2L only.” … “Other leagues are included in experience. UGC Highlander Platinum is considered to be equal to ETF2L High. As such, being rostered, or playing, in UGC Platinum within the past three seasons counts as ETF2L High experience.”

    Admins, you can have that for free.

  99. Mr British: pizza said:

    And bold that shit.

  100. Jack: GD - RG? said:

    I feel left out, why do I have to wait for moderation :c https://i.imgur.com/1Ex6kDG.png
    And @AustinN I understand them having to simplify it. But if the opposite proof is delivered in my opinion they should accept this proof unless they have a proof on a higher level.

    Audiatur et altera pars

    And even should the rules be improved. The ones from before our game should decide about a default win or loss.

  101. AustinN: Brexit - VR said:

    @Brit Admin Application when?

  102. AustinN: Brexit - VR said:

    @Jack This has happened before in other games, they did not reverse the changes then and they might not in this case. Reasoning behind it may be because if the allow it this match then they have to allow it every match.

    The rules have cocked many players, many a time and people can just learn from it for the future, dw I am with you Jack buddy

  103. Mr British: pizza said:

    @Austin Would people want me admin? lmao
    If I were to consider it, after uni exams; i.e. June.

  104. AustinN: Brexit - VR said:

    @Brit I would want it if u still do continue to provide your logs combining service

  105. Mr British: pizza said:

    @Austin I get to rosterride top high teams cos of my log combining service; I would never stop. I need to feed off of high medals. On a more serious note, I guess I’d better get round to writing an application then.

  106. mental: 46DPM - gaeta said:

    http://logs.sharky.tf

  107. Mr British: pizza said:

    Manually combining logs is the cool way to do it @mental

  108. Wonszu: (o)> - ; said:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEKbNwXF2oY

    me when mid players are crying about hl

  109. Jack: GD - RG? said:

    If we are talking about combining logs https://github.com/NetroScript/Jacks-TF2LogCombiner

  110. Mr British: pizza said:

    Stop stealing my job :(

  111. Mr British: pizza said:

    Bloody foreigners

  112. Adje: BMS said:

    #2ndPlaceAlesKee

    Logs can definitely be tampered with by the way since they’re really just text files, but unless people would pay Arie like $200 to edit the upload date or they would somehow get root access to the database where all logs are stored they wouldn’t be able to change the upload date of the log, so I don’t see how the argument that ‘logs don’t count as valid evidence’ makes sense. Although I guess you could argue that people could remove logs and then pretend he did not play in any of those games since I don’t think UGC’s match page keeps track of the players who participated in a game.

    Either way if he only played max 1 game in UGC and 1 in ETF2L (which there seems to be evidence for) then this is kind of silly ngl

  113. Mr British: pizza said:

    @Adje Although I agree, consistency is more important than a singular result. Unfortunately, I have to side with the admins on this.

  114. Divider of Worlds: RG? said:

    Will give my 2 points why CoCoBaer should be a default merc for Mid.

    1) He was on roster on UGC Platinum team for 2 days only, but got his player honor because it was his last team during that season https://imgur.com/wnquVpW

    2) UGC rules have one interesting point: ‘Players will be branded as a particular division once they have secured 3 or more legitimate wins (meaning played matches) in that division in a single season’.
    His team that season had 1/7 win/lose ratio (https://imgur.com/8jLeP5S) that means, that UGC doesn’t count him as a Platinum experienced player. meaning, if UGC doesn’t consider his experience as Platinum, he doesn’t have High experience and is considered default merc for Mid.

    In the end ETF2L rules do not specify if they take number of UGC matches into account or not. That means that from the rules that isn’t enough to specify the player as a default merc, so all the points now have to be taken into account.

  115. Divider of Worlds: RG? said:

    Why then Semicolon didn’t get a default loss in semifinals when they used merc as default that is considered to be high?

  116. TimTum: (ETF2L Donator) - LvG - regretful said:

    Because he only played the one map that they lost, so the result doesn’t change.

  117. TimTum: (ETF2L Donator) - LvG - regretful said:

    Divider of Worlds: vroom – Ja said:
    Fri 4 May 2018, 09:35

    maly has only played Warmtic, the map that polish guys lost anyway, I think it’d be unfair to punish them for this merc

  118. Divider of Worlds: RG? said:

    Then why that they player that was on plat team for 2 days is considered to be high?

  119. Mr British: pizza said:

    Divider of Worlds: vroom – Ja said:
    Fri 4 May 2018, 09:35

    maly has only played Warmtic, the map that polish guys lost anyway, I think it’d be unfair to punish them for this merc

    Lul

  120. Included_Middle: nufcZONE - JOEYO said:

    AlesKee: o5. said:
    Fri 4 May 2018, 10:29

    it’s a fucking cancerlander, no one cares, get over it

  121. Divider of Worlds: RG? said:

    it’s unfair to punish us for a merc that doesn’t have any actual experience in the tier above?

  122. Mr British: pizza said:

    15:18 – devilishly dangerous doggo: i dont care personally but i feel bad for the rest of the guys

    [Aleskee] @middle

  123. Divider of Worlds: RG? said:

    I said that because that was unfair to punish them for using that merc, as well as I think it’s unfair to punish us for a player with 2 days plat experience.

  124. Mr British: pizza said:

    @Divider
    I agree with you, but I don’t think it should be changed for consistency’s sake. Rules need updating though [see above]

  125. TimTum: (ETF2L Donator) - LvG - regretful said:

    He could’ve merced for them before/after, but the only way to find out is to check logs which can be edited/removed. So the only way for etf2l to check for experience is to look on their ugc profile page. This all could’ve been prevented if you just asked the admins for confirmation, because it’s clearly visible on his ugc profile page.

  126. Divider of Worlds: RG? said:

    @TimTum then we can tell that any player could play plat at some point before/after and no one would be able to prove that, so none of the players in this game aren’t def mercs for mid

  127. TimTum: (ETF2L Donator) - LvG - regretful said:

    @Divider of Worlds Yes and that’s why ETF2L can only use his ugc profile page to check his experience because ugc doesn’t track the players in a match.

  128. Mr British: pizza said:

    I think the main lesson here is UGC is dumb.

  129. mental: 46DPM - gaeta said:

    UGC should start implementing required status + scoreboard screenshots, ’cause without it, not only UGC but also ETF2L is getting cucked.

  130. Divider of Worlds: RG? said:

    @TimTum and from his UGC profile we can see that his experience is limited in 2 days in plat which is clearly not enough to play 3 matches there, and that ugc counts him as plat unexperienced player.

  131. TimTum: (ETF2L Donator) - LvG - regretful said:

    That would be pretty difficult because afaik ugc would have to rewrite their site to implement these features.

  132. Divider of Worlds: RG? said:

    in the end we see that admins gave us default loss that is not specified in rules, meaning they gave it against the rules

  133. Mr British: pizza said:

    The UGC site is a complete mess and the head admins don’t care about it. They especially don’t care about EU, so why would they care about ETF2L?

  134. Wonszu: (o)> - ; said:

    IMO ugc shouldnt have any impact, this site is complete mess and no one really cares about EU divisions

  135. Dave_the_Irate: .Qc` - SENS said:

    While I feel bad for Reverie and a default to overturn a grandfinal is always undesirable, the admins are applying the stated rule. Admin consistency is important.

    UGC has been a joke for a while, but at the end of the day if you wanna use a merc with Plat experience you need to either need to get permission from your opponents or from admins like Kiti in S14 GF.

  136. Divider of Worlds: RG? said:

    ‘Any complaints will be judged on a case-by-case basis and different punishments may be handed out in each case’
    I think that 2 day plat experience is a better point that the player honor in his profile that he got cuz that was his last team on roster of which he was that season

  137. Jack: GD - RG? said:

    I don’t know about consistency. I understand that if they played (>3matches) UGC Plat they are experienced high according to the rules. But in this case we have proof, that the merc in question did not play >= 3 matches. Meaning no default loss is not inconsistent. Because there is proof that he did not play any other matches. As far as I know this proof wasn’t delivered in previous cases.
    So I would conclude that this case has nothing to do with consistency.

  138. Divider of Worlds: RG? said:

    Dave_the_Irate, admins are applying the stated rule that isn’t complete enought to make a decision.

  139. TimTum: (ETF2L Donator) - LvG - regretful said:

    Again you could’ve asked the admins beforehand, and they probably would’ve told you: “being rostered on a team that played a full season is counted as experience in the division they played in”. And then you could’ve asked the other team if they would allow him or get a different default merc.

  140. Jack: GD - RG? said:

    @TimTum
    I just want to add this here:
    https://imgur.com/a/dUbLjhz
    Meaning in no way he was not presented.
    And they also approved him. I want to add here they had all the time they wanted to have to check him.

  141. AustinN: Brexit - VR said:

    200 comments possible?

  142. Klin: FROG - SENS said:

    150 gang

  143. Divider of Worlds: RG? said:

    TimTum, “being rostered on a team that played a full season is counted as experience in the division they played in”. Lol what? Yes let me join plat team for 2 days, team will continue playing and then I’m not default merc for mid lol?
    In the end it doesn’t matter when I asked, when AlesKee got him as a default merc I reread the rules and I analysed them the way I did, I didn’t take them wrong, I didn’t use a merc against the rules too. I knew the fact that admins might count him as not default merc ignoring 3 match rule for UGC (which isn’t specified anywhere) only after the match has been played.

  144. TimTum: (ETF2L Donator) - LvG - regretful said:

    @Jack
    I’m not sure in which timezone is used in this picture, but if it’s CEST that means this conversation happened during the game (9.11pm). I don’t think the polish people had the time to check if he was fine during the game. You probably pay more attention to the game itself.

    @Divider of Words, what part about etf2l can’t check the three games rule on ugc don’t you understand? He could’ve merced for other games/teams, these games do count in etf2l so why wouldn’t it in ugc? but there’s no way to check.
    As Dave_the_Irate said, if something isn’t clear (which was the case for you because you said you knew the admins might not count him as a default merc), just contact the admins and they will tell you if he’s fine or not. The sentence about being rostered on a team that played a full season is what the admins think, I just copied it.

  145. Sikky: WPIERDOL - ; said:

    Yes the screen shot is made in CEST time zone, and i did not accept anyone as a merc for this game.

  146. Jack: GD - RG? said:

    @TimTum it is Dividers Screenshot, which is russian time -> CEST +1 Meaning the time when he wrote that was 1 hour before the time which is shown on the screenshot.

  147. Jack: GD - RG? said:

    You can clearly see the Screenshot is not in CEST, because Divider just took the screenshot like 30 minutes ago, his time shows 20:02, but CEST it is currently 19:28

  148. Sikky: WPIERDOL - ; said:

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/422080868299964426/444609138245500929/unknown.png

    then this is my screen shot made by me, i live in the CEST time zone ;-)

  149. Jack: GD - RG? said:

    I don’t know about Dividers Screenshot, as far as I know it is not CEST, but if you want to prove otherwise I would prefer an uncropped screenshot with the current time, fullscreen. Additionally if you took the screenshot just now the names would be gray, because only recent chats are in color and the chat log is grayed out.

  150. Sikky: WPIERDOL - ; said:

    https://i.imgur.com/InNe0Fl.png

  151. Jack: GD - RG? said:

    I meant the chat screenshot with the current time, I mean I also could change my timezone now and show a screenshot of it. I am not saying you are wrong, I just want to say that Dividers phone is CEST+1 which is also shown by the clock on top. Which your screenshot doesn’t show (that it is CEST)

  152. TimTum: (ETF2L Donator) - LvG - regretful said:

    @Jack, even if it was Dividers timezone, why would sikky say ‘upload results so i can accept’ one hour before the game even finished?
    Screenshot says it’s 11:06pm (so 10:06pm cest), when the game finished at 11:05pm cest???

    Or dividers timezone is CEST, or he changed the time on his phone

  153. Sikky: WPIERDOL - ; said:

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/284275376639967232/444914870257844225/Screenshot_20180512-193239.png
    here you go jack ;-)
    Defending your team is one thing and its understandable, but trying to cheat and act like the screenshots are wrong is other thing ;-)

  154. Jack: GD - RG? said:

    I am not trying to cheat, I genuinely assumed Dividers screenshots were from before the game, because he didn’t tell me that he asked you mid game. I now agree that they are CEST.

  155. Sikky: WPIERDOL - ; said:

    well me calling you a cheater might have been over board, but that kinda triggered me, i genuinely thought that you try to manufacture the facts. Sorry for that

  156. Jack: GD - RG? said:

    @TimTum
    I just want to add they had time to check for the player, because it was in the break between gullywash and badwater – which you can check in the logs.

  157. Sikky: WPIERDOL - ; said:

    but still he played in the gullywash game so how could we check that :D

  158. Jack: GD - RG? said:

    Nah I didn’t want to imply that Dividers Steam message was early enough – indeed you couldn’t check him only according to the steam message, but I wanted to say it currently was break time and not mid game. But you could have checked him before because he was posted in match comments before the match started and he also joined at the beginning and not at some point mid game where you couldn’t have checked him.

  159. TimTum: (ETF2L Donator) - LvG - regretful said:

    @Jack
    I also want to add that I’m pretty sure Divider of Worlds changed the time on his phone for this case. Because steam doesn’t change the time of the chat messages when you change the time on your phone (at least for me). So the time of the chat messages was in CEST, but the time on the phone of divider is CEST + 1?

  160. Wonszu: (o)> - ; said:

    posting def merc like 3-4 minutes before game is a dick move tbh. this game was scheduled a long time ago and you should check like day before if you’ll have full team. We did that, we didn’t have to ask about any mercs so next time be like us – true winner of mid hl division :)

  161. Sikky: WPIERDOL - ; said:

    it might be not written, but it’s a logical thing to do, to inform about the merc some time before rather than over 5 minutes after the scheduled game was supposed to start. We all were getting into the server, also there was a problem with you guys changing the server password, two of our guys tried to reconnect and couldn’t because of the password change, so we also couldn’t really pay attention to the match page when we were supposed to start the game already.

  162. Sikky: WPIERDOL - ; said:

    Well, if he changed the time on his phone and tried to argue with this I’m pretty sure its a fraud attempt.

  163. Jack: GD - RG? said:

    @TimTum
    For me it changes the time stamps https://imgur.com/a/sOIUppM

    And about a few minutes before a game, indeed that is not nice, but in the rules there is no specific point of time stated.
    And we also only knew about needing a merc on a relative short notice. We had Reblas, who went to holiday in France, and even took his PC with him, but if I may quote him “My brother got the wrong wireless adapter” and as Sub we had chasing who also canceled (earlier than Reblas) Meaning we didn’t know much sooner that we need a merc.

  164. Wonszu: (o)> - ; said:

    Jack, I understand but you need to understand that’s not our problem. Def mercs was posted nearly the same time as the game started and we don’t know any one of you so how could we check who from your roaster was on server. Also the def merc rule is only for hl and the point of it is that we don’t have to agree on this merc – if you are using wrong one (against the rules) it’s not our problem – it’s yours. If your spy would be a normal one and asked on steam on time we would’ve checked him.

  165. Divider of Worlds: RG? said:

    @TimTum from the rules it’s clear that UGC doesn’t have any specific differences to ETF2L. It isn’t said that they don’t accept logs or count player honors on his page.

  166. gamma: ~flow~ - lad said:

    man honestly, as someone who’s lost games because of the massive grey area between quantifying UGC experience and ETF2L experience, this entire situation is happening because we do not have rules that are clear enough. ETF2L experience is classed as 3 games in that division; but UGC experience is JUST being rostered on a team who was in that division?

    That rule makes sense only in the situation where it’s hard to see who was roster riding or not in UGC games due to the lack of steamid screenshots, but are you seriously telling me that when it’s obvious that coco was rostered for one game and one game only, that is equal to an entire season?

    That said, as others have said before me, if there’s ANY chance the guy could have played a higher division you absolutely need to run it by admins to be certain and not doing so is why this game was overturned, even if with dumb rules. As for the timing of default merc announcements, well, people do it with minutes to go to the match quite often, it’s nothing new it’s just a dick move, especially if there’s a possibility they were higher exp.

    TL;DR ETF2L needs to change its rules about experience, and people need to ask admins about their interpretation of the rules BEFORE a Grand Final.

  167. TimTum: (ETF2L Donator) - LvG - regretful said:

    @Jack
    Even if the time stamps changes when you change the time on the phone, it doesn’t deny the fact that Divider of Worlds changed the time on his phone. Because the time of the chat is still different than the time of the phone.

  168. Divider of Worlds: RG? said:

    @TimTum we agree that we informed about him too late. I live in Russia so we used another time zone there. Not informing about the default merc beforehand doesn’t cause the loss though, can show many proofs of that.
    @gamma there is litteraly no interpretation at all if we take a look st the rules. They specify people experience by 3 matches in higher tier or being rostered on team that is playing in higher div. Also they claim plat experience to be high. I was sure that sending every single log of that team’s season is enough, I had no idea that it doesn’t work for ETF2L admins.

  169. supra: pngwn - EF2L said:

    @AustinN summoning extrasolar:
    21:04 – supra: somebody’s trying to beat your comment amount record on etf2l
    21:04 – supra: welcome on etf2l mid finals
    21:04 – ready steady pan champion #1: SHOW ME

  170. Divider of Worlds: RG? said:

    The rule does make it clear that he is default merc no matter what league do you count

  171. Divider of Worlds: RG? said:

    I can’t rely on what admins tell me after the match

  172. Ja: GD said:

    Logs from all rounds played by CoCo’s UGC team in season 23.

    http://logs.tf/1830868#76561197982427900 Borneo 1
    http://logs.tf/1830912#76561197982427900 Borneo 2
    http://logs.tf/1836680#76561197982427900 Lakeside 1
    http://logs.tf/1836691#76561197982427900 Lakeside 2
    http://logs.tf/1842507#76561197982427900 Vanguard 1
    http://logs.tf/1842540#76561197982427900 Vanguard 2
    http://logs.tf/1842561#76561197982427900 Steel 1 <—- This is the one match CoCo played
    http://logs.tf/1854520#76561197982427900 Steel 2 <—-
    http://logs.tf/1860253#76561197982427900 Product 1
    http://logs.tf/1860266#76561197982427900 Product 2
    http://logs.tf/1864716#76561197982427900 Upward 1
    http://logs.tf/1864677#76561197982427900 Upward 2
    http://logs.tf/1869539#76561198047636563 Cascade 1
    http://logs.tf/1869561#76561198047636563 Cascade 2

    Now, you can disgard this evidence all you want, since ''logs can be edited''.

  173. Ja: GD said:

    Sorry, logs are in wrong order ^ but Steel 2 is the correct one

  174. Ja: GD said:

    Here is combined log of the 1 game CoCo played in plat http://logs.tf/1854531#76561197982427900

  175. Ja: GD said:

    http://logs.tf/1854492#76561197982427900
    http://logs.tf/1854520#76561197982427900

    Here are both rounds

  176. Mr British: pizza said:

    Dude. No one cares at this point. Let this thread die please.

  177. Ja: GD said:

    If admins were fair, a rematch would be settled. Both teams made mistakes with communicating whether or not the merc was allowed or not.

  178. AustinN: Brexit - VR said:

    He played in plat, what do u not understand!! The three game rule only applies to ETF2L Experience. Regards of UGC if they have ever been registered on a plat team then they are a high player.

    This is amazing this is still going

  179. Divider of Worlds: RG? said:

    Austin, where in the rules is it said that it applies only to ETF2L?

  180. Divider of Worlds: RG? said:

    Ja: Ja said:
    Today, 21:33

    @AustinN We get bent over by a rule that was invented today?

  181. Ja: GD said:

    @Sikky You did, you did give a yes or no answer to our very simple ”Could you accept this player” question. Instead you tell us effectively that it’s up to us.

  182. Ja: GD said:

    didn’t* ^

  183. Sikky: WPIERDOL - ; said:

    can you show me a proof of that because I already spoke with the admin about whether I accepted someone or not and provided the evidence that I haven’t in fact accepted anyone

  184. Sikky: WPIERDOL - ; said:

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/284275376639967232/444946295329652736/unknown.png

    I clearly said that if he’s already posted as a def merc, and he doesn’t break any rules then there is nothing to be asked.

  185. Ja: GD said:

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/284275376639967232/444914870257844225/Screenshot_20180512-193239.png

    ”well if hes a def anid u didnt break any rules caliming him then you have nothing to worry about”

  186. Wonszu: (o)> - ; said:

    he just said if there is everything going by the rules then you don’t have to worry is it that hard to understand

  187. Wonszu: (o)> - ; said:

    off you did, can’t you read what admins said?

  188. Ja: GD said:

    Yes @Wonszu, we broke no rules is it that hard to understand. Just lazy admins not bothering to check Coco’s match history and claiming his as plat merc.

  189. sup3rfr3ddy: GD - Dr. med. said:

    “The three game threshold therefore can’t be applied since we have no way of telling who played the match in platinum.” Why are you still arguing about it?

  190. Ja: GD said:

    @sup3rfr3ddy Again, that rule was invented TODAY. Not yesterday, TODAY. Very sloppy rules.

  191. Sikky: WPIERDOL - ; said:

    yeah they just invented the rules TODAY to make you PAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYY

  192. AlesKee said:

    freddy that is true, but that is a general statement designed to cover the majority of cases. On this occasion people have provided evidence to prove exactly how many matches in plat coco has played, which I would assume the majority of people are never able to do. For this reason I would like to think that this case requires “admin discretion”.

  193. Wonszu: (o)> - ; said:

    why everyone is actually calling me an “luckiest person in tf2” or a “queen” when it’s not my team and I played with them like 2 offis? xD

  194. Ja: GD said:

    Yeah, yeah funny. I guess it would’ve been funny had the tables been turned? Had you got default loss instead of us, because of some rule made up on the spot. We scrimmed 40+ hours just to become the first loser.

  195. Included_Middle: nufcZONE - JOEYO said:

    Just fyi I got a match default lost years ago for having a ugc silver player, play 0 games and the team lost every game 0-5, i proved to admins he played no games and they still gave defualt loss. So please stop saying they made this rule up, i doubt my case was even the first because I had already heard about it even back then

  196. Ja: GD said:

    I don’t know @AustinN, haven’t payed attention to anything like this before. But I would assume admins would write new rules to hinder this happening again and again, if this has ”fucked over so many people in the past”.

  197. Divider of Worlds: RG? said:

    Austin, I don’t have to check every match at etf2l if is isn’t said in the rules.

  198. Divider of Worlds: RG? said:

    Wonszu, jeez, why you still don’t understand that everything is made according to the rules LMAO

  199. Sikky: WPIERDOL - ; said:

    Well, it’s not something new that people don’t read the rules, and not knowing the rules doesn’t not free you from obeying them

  200. AlesKee said:

    @middle that’s unfortunate, but it doesnt change the fact that the “UGC experience cannot be proven” statement does not exist in the rule page anywhere, and was only posted by an admin after the def loss was applied. As of now, the rule page states that “experience” = 3 games in a tier, and directly under that it says that ugc exp = etf2l exp. So logically thinking, UGC experience for a tier is 3 games played.

  201. Divider of Worlds: RG? said:

    sikky, what exactly I did against the rules

  202. Wonszu: (o)> - ; said:

    Divider, if everything was made according to the rules, admins wouldn’t give us def win. Goodbye

  203. Azrael said:

    We did read the rules, the rules do not state anywhere that the 3 match rule doesn’t apply to UGC. If that is what is meant, then that is what they should state, but as they do not how can we be to blame for the ETF2l staff not writing the rules clearly

  204. Sikky: WPIERDOL - ; said:

    @Divider of Worlds well the admins did take their time and explained in the post way way above what was the reason of the default

  205. Divider of Worlds: RG? said:

    Wonszu, everything is done according to the rules. You are trying to claim admins to be right only from what they’ve said in this comment section.

  206. Ja: GD said:

    ”As their seems to be a lot of confusion about this rule some clarification seems in order. Since UGC has no way of tracking which players played a match, being rostered on a team that played a full season is counted as experience in the division they played in. The three game threshold therefore can’t be applied since we have no way of telling who played the match in platinum.
    Logs are not a failproof option to cross reference with all the teams games. They can be renamed, edited and removed.”

    This rule is not here anywhere: http://etf2l.org/highlander-season-15-rules/

  207. Wonszu: (o)> - ; said:

    ETF2L Staff said:
    Today, 16:37

    1.4 One mercenary allowed by default and up to 3 mercenaries if the opponent agrees

    One mercenary is allowed by default and up to 3 mercenaries are allowed if the opposing team agrees. In order for your mercenary to be allowed by default, he cannot be more experienced than the tier the match is being played in. Experience in other leagues is included. Opponents can allow exceptions. To use more than one mercenary, you will need specific approval from the opponent for each mercenary.

    A player counts as “experienced” in the tier if, during the current season or in the prior three seasons, they played three or more officials in that tier. For example, for Season 13 experience, we will look at matches during season 13, as well as games in Season 10, 11, and 12. If a player is on a roster of a team in a higher tier than the match in question, he cannot be claimed as a default merc.

    6v6 experience is considered equal to highlander experience, for Season 15 we will look at 6v6 seasons 26-29. Other leagues are included in experience. UGC HL Plat is considered to be high and as such players with plat experience are not allowed to default merc in mid, Gold and Silver are considered to be Mid. This applies to all regions of UGC. We do not count UGC 6v6 or 4v4 experience.

    As their seems to be a lot of confusion about this rule some clarification seems in order. Since UGC has no way of tracking which players played a match, being rostered on a team that played a full season is counted as experience in the division they played in. The three game threshold therefore can’t be applied since we have no way of telling who played the match in platinum.
    Logs are not a failproof option to cross reference with all the teams games. They can be renamed, edited and removed.

  208. Divider of Worlds: RG? said:

    ‘As their seems to be a lot of confusion about this rule some clarification seems in order. Since UGC has no way of tracking which players played a match, being rostered on a team that played a full season is counted as experience in the division they played in. The three game threshold therefore can’t be applied since we have no way of telling who played the match in platinum.
    Logs are not a failproof option to cross reference with all the teams games. They can be renamed, edited and removed’.

    This was said there after the game has ended and they gave us a default loss. Nothing that I broke was in the rules.

  209. Wonszu: (o)> - ; said:

    Do I have to copy paste it once again guys?

  210. Jack: GD - RG? said:

    How about instead of continuing to discuss this here in the comments, like 3 ETF2L Admins, multiple representatives of each team talk privately in f.e. Discord about this and come to an agreement? Or Admins make a statement, which is correct according to currently written rules, and not additions to the rules. The game was played, and the rules which were written there count. Don’t add anything to them now, but talk about the rules which were effective when the game was played.

  211. Divider of Worlds: RG? said:

    let’s finish that here because we won’t come to agreement anyway

  212. Wonszu: (o)> - ; said:

    it’s pointless now for us, we won – you lost, nothing will change it ;)

  213. Divider of Worlds: RG? said:

    no point to discuss there, only admins make a decision tbh

  214. AustinN: Brexit - VR said:

    Wonszu: WPIERDOL – ; said:
    Today, 22:26

    it’s pointless now for us, we won – you lost, nothing will change it ;)

  215. TimTum: (ETF2L Donator) - LvG - regretful said:

    This shouldn’t even be discussed anymore since Divider of Worlds tried to sabotage it:

    1.6 Committing or supporting fraud is strictly forbidden

    Committing or supporting the act of fraud is strictly forbidden.

    Different types of fraud include (but are not limited to):

    – Manipulating screenshots, chatlogs or match results.

    cause you clearly changed the time of your phone

  216. Divider of Worlds: RG? said:

    @TimTum, you could reread my message earlier, not everyone in this world uses CEST, I use timezone of the place where I live (surprisingly), so I sent them to my team and they analysed them wrong way. I’ve never said that I informed about the merc in advance

  217. AlesKee said:

    @TimTum There are eleven time zones in Russia, which currently observe times ranging from UTC+02:00 to UTC+12:00. Daylight saving time is not used in Russia (since March 2011).

    Good job sherlock.

  218. TimTum: (ETF2L Donator) - LvG - regretful said:

    @Divider of Worlds, it seems you don’t understand, because the time of your chat messages is in CEST (?), while the time of your phone is the timezone of where you live? I mean sure if you can explain why steam uses a different timezone. But if not I don’t see any reason why your steam app would use a different time than your own timezone.

  219. Sacrilege: HIFACGOOO - kiti said:

    i’m posting so late admins won’t notice i’m gay

  220. Barthiz said:

    https://i.imgur.com/N69kdHx.jpg

  221. Kaine: +2 said:

    .

  222. Barthiz said:

    :)

  223. Kaine: +2 said:

    (ノ◕ヮ◕)ノ*:・゚✧

  224. stexer: .Qc` said:

    Ez tbh

  225. Ja: GD said:

    B retty easy.

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