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cp_logjam (5CP)

Created 17th June 2014 @ 23:12

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Let’s get something clear here, the way I see it, the hate isn’t towards the map maker, nor the map itself, it’s more towards the league.

See, usually unfinished maps shouldn’t be considered too much since the amount of flaws and bugs that could be found in them would require several updating which will result in an inconsistent map form.

You have updated the map ~7 versions from the start of last season, up until now, I mean, I’m not sure if I’m crazy by saying this but, I’d much rather play an already play tested and almost finished map, rather than playing a map which is going through so many problems and flaws that could drastically change all of the sudden.

I think that leagues, and important high-risk matches that teams play, shouldn’t be a place for playtesting such an early version of a map. A map should be playtested in cups, pugs and other places in order for you to get the most stable, consistent and nearly finished version of it so we can play it in a season and know for sure if it’s good or bad.

You can use the “oh it’s not nearly finished so don’t hate it” excuse all you want, but if a league is dumb enough to add an early beta version of a map that had so many flaws that people could spot and require the mapper to change it 7 versions (!) afterwards to make it suite our taste in the next season, then it really isn’t your fault.

If you would compare a well designed map like metalworks, that got all it’s playtesting through mostly pugs and feedback, and once it reached rc, or one of the early rc’s, it got its spot in ESEA and got its playtesting and people didn’t hate the map too much, they liked because it required just small changes in order to make it near perfect for them, yet you have changed so many things, I lost count already.

Hyce, I really appreciate your enthusiasm towards this map, I know this map will turn out for the better some day in the future, I less appreciate ETF2L’s decision making about maps and the quality of them, shame.


Last edited by JackyLegs,

Hyce

Jackylegs, I appreciate you posting that- I know we’ve talked in the past but this makes me understand your point the most.

They did add in a beta map- which surprised the hell out of me- but at the same time the changes I have made haven’t been drastic- the biggest changes are a modified choke, the additions on the end of cave at mid, and the new logroom.

I appreciate the support as well- I’m not a part of the EU scene in actually playing TF2 so I can never tell- all I get is what I hear from people I talk to on steam, and posts on the forum.

I’m going to try my best to get b18 out on Thursday- that might be thursday night American time- so Friday hopefully for you guys at the latest.

scatmo

27/2

BLU 2nd point, next to the logs, you can leak in through by jumping on the rock and you can go to the river and see through the map

Hyce

Hahaha, yeah- I’m aware. That’s fixed for b18. I appreciate you mentioning it here- I think the person who found it originally only posted it on tf.tv.

b18 is going to be the one you guys use for the season- as soon as I get it out, that is.

Also if anyone comes in after reading the map announcement- apologies it’s probably not my place to have posted what I did in the main thread, however, my point stands and I am going to leave my post there. And yes I do play TF2- I’m backing up for an ESEA-O team at the moment.

Hyce

While it’s not RC…

http://imgur.com/a/dEeHB

“Logjam is -1/10 on detailing”

“Hyce why don’t you and phi make a map together so you don’t have to detail it”

“This map sucks”

“Aidsjam”

swag

tbh i think mid still needs some work, the roof on the sides is a step in the right direction, but its too high up imo and you shouldnt slide down. some kinda cover would be nice as well (sorta like process). also something in the middle of the point would be nice to allow teams to move forward without taking tons of damage/getting sniped etc.

Popcorp

Don’t forget to add Lamps and other light props, because it looks weird how Light comes out of nowhere.

Netsky

roof polygons flipped / missing (RED only):
http://cloud-4.steamusercontent.com/ugc/543016399745371952/B50EBBA427F8E41C81DF982252585A73D344A426/

flickering line (BLU only):
http://cloud-4.steamusercontent.com/ugc/543016399745371789/533649CBEC46C9F78714762506FFF235A5822F17/

Arthur

WM

The B17 logroom is much better, I like it alot, it makes holding second much more interesting too, Because it is no longer “rush the shutter”. Seems like most routes are viable now.

Good work Hyce

Hyce

Popcorp- yeah, I know about the lights. Lights are always kinda the last thing I do- not sure if they’ll make it for b18 or not.

As far as the roof and flickering line- the flickering line makes no sense to me, I can’t see it hammer, I have no idea why it’s doing that. The bit of a roof is something I’ve been needing to fix for a while, it just has not been a priority.

A lot of people have said they want more height on mid near the point and I’ve just not found a way to do it that doesn’t suck entirely. I’ll look into it again, maybe I’ll think of something.

Netsky

was quite busy, couldn’t look if it’s the same on the other side:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=379580485

Hyce

Thanks for that as well- fixed.

http://imgur.com/a/f1Pd9

Not an in-game build, but check that out. Should help the only passive or only aggressive plays- a bit of height by the point, and cover to move up with.

You should see the map out later tonight. I’ve got class now- toodles guys!

Popcorp

Quoted from Hyce

Thanks for that as well- fixed.

http://imgur.com/a/f1Pd9

Not an in-game build, but check that out. Should help the only passive or only aggressive plays- a bit of height by the point, and cover to move up with.

You should see the map out later tonight. I’ve got class now- toodles guys!

I don’t like the idea of having those wooden walls on Mid, because as you can see right now, Scout has 4 roofs, 2 rocks, 4 fences that he can jump on already, adding those 2 walls will be a pain in the ass to kill a Scout, with those walls, he doesn’t even have to touch the ground anymore, just jump from Roof to Wall to enemy Roof.


Last edited by Popcorp,

gedu

czur
SDCK!

i liked this map about b10 ar like this but now it remindes me some map i cant remember

btw. blue side http://imgur.com/a/YUJ7i


Last edited by gedu,

Hyce

Yes, I appreciate you pointing that out. I’ve gotten about a million messages about it, haha.

The clip brush got corrupted or something and got deleted- not sure how. Oh well.

As for scouts on mid- I can see the concern, but at the same time this should make mid play better otherwise. I’ll look into it further.

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