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cp_croissant (final)

Created 8th August 2011 @ 02:04

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From my point of view the last point is very hard to defend vs. opponent with uber. Usually you can force uber earlier (on badlands – in lobby, on granary – near the doors) and go back and then re-attack and try to save your last point.

On croissant you need to stay on the point (cos 2 scouts from the bottom can easy take it), but in this case you will be lower than your opponent, because they can just push with uber from the right top. It will be silly idea to try to force them as well, cos they will just kill you (where will you escape? Only on the point – so you will go lower and eat lots of spam…)

The mid seems very big. I haven’t played previous versions a lot, but mid point on croissant_b8 on ETF2L Croissant Cup was much better!


Last edited by Galant,

Here are some screens of the mountain glitch!
http://imgur.com/a/ZqJAA


Last edited by Gozo,

Forsak3n

[R]eason

Mid:
o There are too many slopes and it makes demoman be the most dominating by allowing easily to spam through all the mid without any risk.
o I don’t like the place where the health-pack is put. It is the dead man place.
o Minimum fix: Make this possible: http://i.imgur.com/mmidV.jpg

Second:
o Seemed perfect.
o Sniping from mid is 2ez: http://i.imgur.com/B7vZg.jpg & http://i.imgur.com/O8qSy.jpg

Last:
o Invisible walls are horrible, so there are two ways of easy fixing – removing them (so we could sticky/rocket jump over that barrier, it would be still good because the cap time was set fine for it) or just close that space up with walls. I prefer the first way.
The pic of that place: http://i.imgur.com/PHVVE.jpg

Overall:
o Middle needs a complete replanning.
o The surface of the map is horrible for playing soldier, would like it to be a little bit smoother (<3 granary).
o Green design looks horrible in low settings. :p
o There is no need in increasing the respawntime.

Edit:
My mid fix:
Removing the pass under the point (the one where is the medkit), move the kit to that small wooden room, the point area will become longer, add a little pass under the point and add the roof like on yukon (walkable), increase alittle bit the distance from mid till the barrier (from where mostly demomen liked spamming) and leave everything else as it is.
The mid will be simple and good looking.

My high skill paint sketch: http://imgur.com/gKsDW


Last edited by Forsak3n,

Brainmaster

#WW

Quoted from Gozo

Here are some screens of the mountain glitch!
http://imgur.com/a/ZqJAA/quote

I think you can actually shoot through that mountain with the soldier. I will test it out right away.

You can jump on it, then get in a deathtrap and then you are able to shoot through it:
http://steamcommunity.com/id/brain708/screenshot/578952670174852412

lolz, please fix ! :)


Last edited by Brainmaster,

Angel

Good feedback, especially from Forsaken and Gozo. Our cp_croissant_b17 bug-contest prize increased to $200.

Have a buggy day,
Angel :)

Forsak3n

[R]eason

Quoted from Angel

Good feedback, especially from Forsaken and Gozo. Our cp_croissant_b17 bug-contest prize increased to $200.

Have a buggy day,
Angel :)

Added new stuff into my reply :)

Admirable

coolclan

Bug report:

Map is shaped like a banana, suggest renaming to cp_banana.

GhostjAAH `

IDK
:>

Quoted from Admirable

Bug report:

Map is shaped like a banana, suggest renaming to cp_banana.

:DDD

CHERRY

(Site Admin)
Saloon.tf

Yea Croissants are more like ] while map is ).
I suggest giving price to him

Arnold

DAKKA

Thanks for the replies, spawntimes will be decreased and i will probably try to simplify mid more, there will always be complaints but i’m working on it, it’s a hard point to figure out because of the shape.

Last is hard to defend when you don’t have an uber and the enemy team does but when an enemy team has an uber and you don’t it should be.

The sightlines are there but they shouldn’t be too overpowered.

And obviously I will fix the bugs mentioned.

And Angel can’t thank you enough man!

Snyyppis

The problem I see with last is that the attacking team always has a height advantage (unless for some reason they push bottom). Since there is no real choke between 2nd and last to pop them early, the defenders are forced to hold on the bridge. If you try to hold up top you will eat shit loads of spam and risk an easy headshot.

Overall, though, I really enjoyed playing the map but defending is very difficult so middles did determine most rounds in our game.

Also, I feel that the map should be played in two halves, switching colours in between. Personally I find the red side advantageous due to easier edging on middle and 2nd.

wrock

vier

Lets start with the middle: http://www.bilder-space.de/show_img.php?img=2a7ab7-1333717115.jpg&size=original
1.both of the ways: spamcorner, at the beginning of the midfights hardly anyone stands there because it’s a dead trap, no way to dodge and easy juggeling

2. The Point itself god for demo and soldier, but the problem is the flanks
Hardly anyone (exceptions are demo or roaming?) standing up there because that would means to many flanks are open and the medic can be easily picked
Also for pushing forward sometimes its hard to cup because you don’t see anyone coming, your soldier need to long for get into position for covering
The Ring: I like that ring(as scout) but only when someone from my team is on the top, no point for standing anyone else there because no line of sight.

3.Lower Ring: nice to sneak for scout but nothing else, the medkit has a good position anyway

4.doesn’t look bad at the first look but the problem is….you can’t get support, demo is looking forward, soldier cant spam in that cycle and scout needs to long to get:
The House: no really need for it, the middle has alrdy a lack of sightline. No chance for anyone outside to see what happens in there:

Summary: lack of sightlines, to many flanks you don’t see

2nd/4th Point: http://www.bilder-space.de/bilder/e4e798-1333717981.jpg
I like the lower ground but as scout it takes quiet long to get up again
Anyway The point itself looks good, if the medic is bad at positioning it’s easy to force uber
also kritz working quiet good here.
Don’t know what to say to 1 it’s creative but I think it’s a little bit too limited since the tunnel isn’t anymore(in my opinion a good decision)
lower lobby looks fine

Push to last:http://www.bilder-space.de/bilder/e4e798-1333717981.jpg
Never used 1…it’s too obvious. You can be easily spammed and no chance to get out again:
2.Main Pushing Lane Open sightline so good for crits looks nice to me
3. Would be the tunnel from lower lobby, hardly did but but in theory it should be like badlands with the disadvantage that it takes longer for the medic and scouts to get into a good position

Push from Last:
Generally not that hard but the lack of sightline makes it hard again.
e.g. scout recapping 2nd and until anyone else is coming enemy sol or demo can jump in and you see it quiet late

Last:http://www.bilder-space.de/show_img.php?img=baf985-1333718011.jpg&size=original
The cap speed is an interesting facto what makes croissant unique so don’t change that
1: The Tunnel: nice to sneak in but it takes a long time to get into position when you don’t want to get seen(not like badlands when you are right on the point or quiet fast on the other side
2: Most of the time you’re using your uber when you get there so it’s a little bottleneck. If the enemy team manged to force you early you‘ll die there. Similar to the ramp you can’t really dodge there so you have to go fast onto the point.

Summary Last: In General it seems good(How about stairs behind the point? or at least something to jump up)
But maybe the area around 2 need improvement

anyway…that’s my opinion and all in all it’s a great map

some bugs/position:
http://www.bilder-space.de/show_img.php?img=3dab2c-1333718154.jpg&size=original
http://www.bilder-space.de/show_img.php?img=f5ecd7-1333718188.jpg&size=original
http://www.bilder-space.de/show_img.php?img=8c714b-1333718219.jpg&size=original
http://www.bilder-space.de/show_img.php?img=4a86e1-1333718242.jpg&size=original
http://www.bilder-space.de/show_img.php?img=522613-1333718295.jpg&size=original
http://www.bilder-space.de/show_img.php?img=90e9f6-1333718122.jpg&size=original
http://www.bilder-space.de/show_img.php?img=e2087c-1333718260.jpg&size=original


Last edited by wrock,

Angel

Quoted from Snyyppis

Overall, though, I really enjoyed playing the map but defending is very difficult so middles did determine most rounds in our game.

Yes, as we can seen this on the match Infused vs OMG It’s yesterday. But there is a simple solution to fix it

Quoted from Arnold

spawntimes will be decreased and i will probably try to simplify mid more

Quoted from Snyyppis

Also, I feel that the map should be played in two halves, switching colours in between. Personally I find the red side advantageous due to easier edging on middle and 2nd.

Which advantageous? Can you explain your idea?

Snyyppis

Quoted from Angel

Which advantageous? Can you explain your idea?

As I wrote way back on the first page:
Quoted from Snyyppis

… as with any mirrored map I think many teams would opt to play just on one side – red in this case – because of easier edging (with right handed viewmodels).

Mike

[R]eason

I don’t think the edging has any significant effect, also we played against “tcmmix” not OMG it is :P.

I quite enjoyed it, but I think it could be improved if you follow Forsak3n’s suggestions

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