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Quoted from Hildreth

Awful map why was it included :(

Agreed.
Needs more tiny chokepoints between the main areas & dead ends all over the place.

Words cannot describe my dismay with second and last! Hopefully the map is going to be improved. Looking forward to no more Bazillion soon.

7zip works, +free

very strange mid point. Played it yesterday and both teams were fairly new to the map… when everyone got to mid they kinda didn’t do a lot. i have a strange feeling that the middle tower can slow up the gameplay on mid.

I would like to see a 2 tiered platform on mid rather than the current tower. (something to give the scouts a bit of focus for the middle and somewhere for the demoman to focus them. At the moment the scouts cant easily reach the demoman, and the demoman cannot easily predict the focus of the scouts. with a lower level platform that you could cap on this issue imo could be solved and then keep a higher level platform where the roof of the tower already is to keep the late mid fight the same as it is.

tldr. hollow out the middle of the mid point and put a cap-able platform in there, allowing something other than floor access for the scouts.

Quoted from Sketch

7zip works, +free

very strange mid point. Played it yesterday and both teams were fairly new to the map… when everyone got to mid they kinda didn’t do a lot. i have a strange feeling that the middle tower can slow up the gameplay on mid.

I would like to see a 2 tiered platform on mid rather than the current tower. (something to give the scouts a bit of focus for the middle and somewhere for the demoman to focus them. At the moment the scouts cant easily reach the demoman, and the demoman cannot easily predict the focus of the scouts. with a lower level platform that you could cap on this issue imo could be solved and then keep a higher level platform where the roof of the tower already is to keep the late mid fight the same as it is.

tldr. hollow out the middle of the mid point and put a cap-able platform in there, allowing something other than floor access for the scouts.

What.

Quoted from Arnold

Quite the contradiction, you hope to see it improved yet you hope to never see it again.

Anyway, if there is a reason for you to dislike it, please tell me otherwise i’ll just continue ignoring your worthless comments.

Should have specified; I can’t wait to see the back of rc2, but hope other versions will be improved.

Biggest problem for me is the respawns on last. They’re too close to the point, and can make capturing pointlessly hard. I’ve defended against so many failed pushes, and attacked in an equal amount too.

Pushing cp4. There is only one general route when it’s 6 on 6 and equal ubers.
If you go house you get popped way early, and it’s easy for the defending medic to simply back away. This leaves big choke. My main problem here is sightlines and distance.
You can’t really successfully bomb a medic from big choke, unless you want to eat shotgun and scattergun, so waiting for a force is ruled out. Sightlines.
As a sniper you can’t get a good view on the medic, so waiting for a pick is out of the picture.
In the end you simply have to pop early and hope for the best, with a clear height disadvantage.
Like pushing Yukon last, really.
I’ve seen the combo run up to the roof before, but it was easily countered by stickies on the wall or on the walkway.
I must be missing something here. There’s got to be another way, unseen by teams we’ve played against.

What is seemingly everyone missing? If it really isn’t a problem with the map what else is there that cannot be easily countered?

Quoted from hykleri

[…]

I know what you mean, but i am still not a 100% sure what you want with mid. screen mebbe?

My question was mostly cause “(something to give the scouts a bit of focus for the middle and somewhere for the demoman to focus them. At the moment the scouts cant easily reach the demoman, and the demoman cannot easily predict the focus of the scouts)” of this.

If someone seriously think that the scouts can’t go for the demo right away/reach him, and demo can’t kill the scouts on mid, i would suggest to figure out the map properly.

mid is bad

i did write you a proper explanation of why i thought the tower needed adapting but i deteted. sorry. dont like to leave feedback like that but mad.

Quoted from Daleth

[…]

Should have specified; I can’t wait to see the back of rc2, but hope other versions will be improved.

Biggest problem for me is the respawns on last. They’re too close to the point, and can make capturing pointlessly hard. I’ve defended against so many failed pushes, and attacked in an equal amount too.

Pushing cp4. There is only one general route when it’s 6 on 6 and equal ubers.
If you go house you get popped way early, and it’s easy for the defending medic to simply back away. This leaves big choke. My main problem here is sightlines and distance.
You can’t really successfully bomb a medic from big choke, unless you want to eat shotgun and scattergun, so waiting for a force is ruled out. Sightlines.
As a sniper you can’t get a good view on the medic, so waiting for a pick is out of the picture.
In the end you simply have to pop early and hope for the best, with a clear height disadvantage.
Like pushing Yukon last, really.
I’ve seen the combo run up to the roof before, but it was easily countered by stickies on the wall or on the walkway.
I must be missing something here. There’s got to be another way, unseen by teams we’ve played against.

What is seemingly everyone missing? If it really isn’t a problem with the map what else is there that cannot be easily countered?

Do you really think it’s that simple? Perhaps you could split your team up? the defending team can’t defend house unless they use the roof of cp2 as a height advantage, which also leaves quite the distance so you can in theory avoid the spam and go in without popping, which basically results in your team being very close to cp2 without having to uber. Unless ofcourse you have a hard time pushing out from a house that gives you height advantage over the enemies that decide to hold close. (which would also mean that big choke has less enemies to defend)

Yukon last is no comparison because the cp is on the height advantage and the height advantage is located at the end divided by a very small bridge or a long route with a long choke. On bazillion the enemy can get on the height advantage easier since you can use the ramp, the defending team can not. The cp is also located inside the house, not on top, there is also no spawn close to the height advantage and no medpacks either. the only medpacks are inside the base.

On the other hand if they hold on top of house they can’t hold big choke close, so you can get behind by using the little allyway and maybe get a scout behind so they have to split their attention, you can aid the scout by supporting fire into the little allyway. Teamwork perhaps?

Just very basic stuff really, it’s way more complicated than that ofcourse, there are too many variables. I can’t possibly describe every scenario, if you really think the only options are the ones you just described that would just show you haven’t played the map enough. Or that the other teams are just better than you.

About last cp, if you are capping last and the enemy team wants to block when exiting spawn they have a hard time because they have no height advantage, if you can’t abuse that well i guess nobody’s to blame but you. I don’t see how the spawns are such a dealbreaker really. (spawntimes on last are the default ones so that would mean 15 seconds on average, an uber lasts 10 seconds, if they spawn and you haven’t wiped the enemy team enough to cap last than you haven’t pushed succesfully and you shouldn’t get a point)

What would be helpful is just uploading an stv demo so i can watch your matches where these problems occur, i can then decide if it’s really the maps fault or just the players.

Btw: how many times have you played the map? excluding the matches where you still had to learn the maps lay-out