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Ladder Feedback
Created 19th October 2009 @ 22:02
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What’s the fastest way to get an opponent for tonight? Just #tf.wars? Well, if someone sees this, my div 5 team is highly willing to play tonight. :)
And what do you think about making separate ladder teams aside from the league system? I’d like that – playing officials with friends other than clannies.
That’s what I thought. Perhaps a seperate #etf2lladder channel or something like that. Or just spam on #tf.wars what you’re looking for. Anyway, I’ll try to find you and your team next week ;)
The “time generator” is buggy..
when i scheduele for 20:00 it says 21:00 and when i write 21:00 its 22:00… whats up?
Yep, I got this too.
@Klu Ok ill look into that, not sure whats going on there.
@Skyride
Were now using the ELO system so that formula isnt being used, but i get what you mean. We could easily scale the points based on the team scores. Ill move the system over to working on a per map basis (instead of overall result) and ill think about the points difference :)
Yeah, the time thing is dodgy. I submitted my results at 22:08 cest, page says 21:08. Scheduling went fine though.
Ok ive updated the points system.
Each map now counts but then the final points you get is scaled by the number of maps you’ve played. That way playing 3 maps isnt an advantage over playing 1 map.
Furthermore the points are scaled based on the scores. So as skyride suggested it uses:
(sin(deg2rad(abs(t1 pts – t2pts) * 4) + 1
to scale the map points.
If people are confused ill post some full examples of the algorithm.
please give the algorithm
but not sure why did you use the sin-function
I would say, just do it like in every elo-system
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system#Theory
e.g. ESL Ladder
http://www.esl.eu/eu/faq/rankmodules/
Rnew = Result old + C1 * (W – E)
W = The percentage points of the result of the match (e.g.: 100% = won, 50% = undecided, 0% = lost)
Rold = Old Ranking (Elo points)
Rnew = New Ranking
E = Expected percentage points (calculated beforehand)
C1 = Constant one (at present: 50)
The prediction of percentage points are calculated as shown below:
E = 1 / (1+10^ (-(R-Rother)/C2))
R = Ranking of the own team
Rother = Ranking of the opponent
C2 = Constant one (at present: 400)
dunno if possible
you could do C1 = 25 * number of maps
so you can win at max 25 points per map
this is one major part imo
I think a match with only one map should no get rewarded in the same value,
like a 2 or 3 map match, dunno if that is the case atm, need the complete algo
@che
we use ELO system with k = 60 for newcomers, 40 for bottom 30%, 32 for top 70, 24 for top 40% and 16 for top 10%. Then we scale this value by (sin(deg2rad(abs(t1pts – t2pts) * 4) + 1
so for a 2-1 win scale = ~1.07
and for a 5-0 win scale =~ 1.34
the 4* multiplier is prolly a little high atm
SO:
Team 1 has 1022 and Team 2 has 1054. 3 maps played. 2-1, 2-2, 5-0
ELO: Team 1 has expected 0.454, Team 2: 0.546
Map 1:
Team 1 has actual 1 => 1 – 0.454 = 0.546
Team 2 has actual 0 => 0 – 0.546 = -0.546
say k = 40:
Team 1: 0.546 * 40 = 21.84
Team 2: -21.84
now scale by points difference
Team 1: 21.84 * 1.07 = 23.34
Team 2: -23.34
We now calculate this for the second and third maps then scale by number of maps
Map1 + Map2 + Map3 / 3
Now calculate new rating for team
Algorithm on front page is very much outdated :)
I think points should be given map based. Otherwise, there is no point in playing 2-3 maps since you can get the same amount of points by playing just 1 map.
Also, why is the k value changing according to the teams’ rankings? ELO already calculates the win chances. What will be the k value if a bottom 30% team plays with a top 10% team?
Well ELO uses k =16 for experienced players and k=32 for new players, just a modification of that
be good if i can click on who challenged us on that Challenge page…i see Black Apple challenged us..im like who the fuck is that…and i have to go through the search system to find out… be cooler a simple click…
Well ELO uses k =16 for experienced players and k=32 for new players, just a modification of that
ELO K is based on rating not position though.
K should be the same, at least untill the ladder takes shape (and the better teams are at the top)
*edit*
IMO K should always be based on rankings and for a while every team will be on 1000 points +/- 100, so K should be the same
altering the K at 800 points 1000 points, 1200, points, 1500 points or something similar would work better
Ok got it, i see your point although we order by rating and hence similar to position its not the same. Ill make some modifications
(and the better teams are at the top)
How will this happen? If low+ teams keep playing low+, mid+ teams mid+ teams and mid teams mid teams. You are practically forced to play some low div teams to get some easy points in. Don’t get me wrong, I like the ladder, but I doubt the best teams will be on top.
The current standings already show this: hb0da and us are not even in the top3 even though we clearly beaten a much better team.
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