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European Mix League

Created 6th May 2015 @ 21:14

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Quoted from CHERRY

Good move, though I think I should’ve elaborated why I found this fundriser rather surprising instead of posting a shocked emote.

The main thing is that I didn’t really dislike the fundraiser idea, it’s just that a goal set to 500e shocked me.
I just feel like it’d be better for you to just accept PayPal donations without any expectation, because it makes you look like you’re after the money where a lot of other projects like TF2Center, TF2Pickup or Serveme were all self financed and people just expect the same from all future projects especially if they are just starting.

Don’t get me wrong though as I’m not really saying that this is how it should. 500 euro in a normal world wouldn’t really be considered a big budget especially if you need to hire someone, but people who work here contribute without anything in return and most of the players never win anything by playing the game (they even lose money on going to LANs).
Though it is true that one (the potential coder) needs either money or passion to be motivated, but hey – while it’s hard to find someone who codes for free nowadays I think it’s totally possible for the same reason this fundraiser wouldn’t work now. You just need to make him part of the project rather than contracting so he feels that he’s working on something he’s a part of and motivation will outbalance need for money.

I wish you the best, maybe it will be a good idea for you to post on teamfortress.tv as it might get more attention there.

I completely agree and this was a big reason why I cut the fundraiser after thinking about it. Donations will be a lot more trustworthy when the site is live. Originally, I looked for programmers outside the community, who, obviously were looking for profit rather than helping a community they are not part of (hence why the budget was so high to begin with). However EUML is now looking for programmers within the comp community, so hopefully they will be motivated to help out of dedication to the community, though I will be happy to pay of course.

Thanks guys for the helpful feedback in helping EUML make the right choices towards making our concept an actuality :)

Gentleman Jon

Quoted from AB

Just look at the highest div/tier the person has played in. Playerrankings are cool if you’re intererested in stats but beyond that they’re a joke if you want to objectively compare skill, hardly anyone takes pugs seriously.

Loveclop is Prem

AB

Idk what that’s supposed to mean. Top players can still be at the top of the rankings because well.. they’re good at the game but just because someone is at the top of the rankings doesn’t make them a really good player, smth about sets and subsets but you know more about that than I do.

I personally love the concept of the site, used to be into stats quite a bit(before I actually started doing some). Just saying that using them to objectively rank skill for a league would be a mistake.

Quoted from AB

Just look at the highest div/tier the person has played in.

If you were referring to that, I was more saying that to rank skill for the league than anything about your rankings haha.


Last edited by AB,

Gentleman Jon

Quoted from AB

If you were referring to that, I was more saying that to rank skill for the league than anything about your rankings haha.

The problem they will have is that the highest league division played in doesn’t tell you anything about skill on a particular class (this can vary a great deal, particularly with the classes that attract specialists like sniper and spy), if they played at all or were just a mascot, how they did in games they did play in, whether their promotion was a mistake and they were instantly relegated, etc.

If they don’t tackle those problems then they won’t have balanced mixes, it will mostly be a measure of social connections, but it’s arguable that that might be a more satisfying way of organising mixes anyway.

Quoted from Gentleman Jon

[…]If they don’t tackle those problems then they won’t have balanced mixes

Our plan is on signup for each tournament, players will registered which skill tier they want to be placed in and their top 3 classes they want to play in the games. This allows players to move freely between tier levels if they want to offclass. To validate someone isnt sandbagging, an admin will confirm/reject the signup by looking at their previous league stats as that class (easily enough done via logs). For example, if a tier 2 (mid) demo main decided to offclass for our mix tournament and chose, medic, scout and roamer as their class, they would be likely eligbile to compete in tier 3 (open) aslong as they had only played their chosen classes at that skill level or below.

We are always open to suggestion and it is likely that the method will alter as development progresses. Any feedback is, of course appriciated.

Gentleman Jon

Quoted from the hand that destroys u

…an admin will confirm/reject the signup by looking at their previous league stats as that class (easily enough done via logs).

It’s not complicated to find the stats but it takes a long time as there is no official index and you have to browse through them on the site itself, unless you’re compiling your own index or have an automated method, or making the player submit them themselves although they still need confirming.

Assessing them is complicated, relatively easily done if you know what you’re doing but that’s the trick. What will you be looking for?

fraac

JOHN
CENATION

Could have captains picking teams with an allotted budget – sort of like fantasy tf2.

schocky

2eZ

Quoted from the hand that destroys u

[…]

Our plan is on signup for each tournament, players will registered which skill tier they want to be placed in and their top 3 classes they want to play in the games.

Actually I think that this idea is alright but this requires that the people will answer the tier-question honestly. Since every person has to do it on his own it should be easier to do so.

Looking forward to the release :)

kKaltUu

R6S
SDCK

Hmmm.

+ big plans
+ community involved(?)

– no clear direction where it’s headed
– no idea what goes behind organising it
– no programmers working on the project
– using spreadsheets
– already asking money

I’m sorry but this really smells like over eager kids trying something out, or a big scam.

I welcome community efforts, if done correctly. keep this in closed beta until you’ve got a proper backend and ruleset. this is going to hurt the community if you implement it like this.

Quoted from kKaltUu

– no clear direction where it’s headed
– no idea what goes behind organising it
– no programmers working on the project
– using spreadsheets
– already asking money

I’m sorry but this really smells like over eager kids trying something out, or a big scam.

I welcome community efforts, if done correctly. keep this in closed beta until you’ve got a proper backend and ruleset. this is going to hurt the community if you implement it like this.

Thanks for the feedback, if a little negative. However you’re mistaken on some parts of your criticism.

– We have an idea of where it’s heading, information can be found on our Steam group page. We are open to suggestions from the community as to what they would like to to be and we will do our best to work around that.
– We are aware of what it takes to organise this. A lot of time has been put into planning EUML, however, as with before, we are open to suggestions. This might explain why all plans appear subjective on the Forum.
– We have programmers who have taken interest in the project and are in process of scoping the development time and cost before they begin.
– The spreadsheet is to record players who take interest in the concept of EUML. We know it is an amateur system, but we are not prepared to put time into a temporary spreadsheet that is only used to get an idea of how many players we will be dealing with when we have so much more to get on with.
– Fundraising campaign scrapped a day or two after launch. Project will be funded privately until we have more to show for it. I do believe this steers us away from the “scammer” label.

Are we eager? Yes, we have an idea and want to get it into development. EUML will remain closed until it is completely finished.

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