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What does everyone think about cp_steel

Created 12th March 2014 @ 20:41

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jakeowaty

Quoted from Linus

despite so many people praising it for being incredibly tactical, I find that in the end a lot of the games on it simply boil down to frantic DM-fest.

it’s not particularly “complex” as it is chaotic, as more and more routes and possibilities open up. It just highlights the randomness of the format really.

Kaneco

Quoted from konr

After just watching the match between Highpander and Kill Switch I hope this map is gone next season because that was the most boring shit I’ve ever seen.

Any HL game would be the most boring shit ever if teams had no items for 90% of the time

inso

itsallgood

steel is the most boring shit ever…….. well nvm i take that back gravelpit is in the mappool

konr

Quoted from Kaneco

[…]

Any HL game would be the most boring shit ever if teams had no items for 90% of the time

I don’t think unlocks would have changed that for me to be honest. I’ve played it and watched it a few other times too and am of the exact same opinion. I don’t like how you skipped over the other post though!

ondkaja

IKEA

Quoted from konr

[…]I don’t think unlocks would have changed that for me to be honest. I’ve played it and watched it a few other times too and am of the exact same opinion. I don’t like how you skipped over the other post though!

it’s an entirely different game without unlocks…

Kaneco

Quoted from konr

[…]I don’t think unlocks would have changed that for me to be honest. I’ve played it and watched it a few other times too and am of the exact same opinion. I don’t like how you skipped over the other post though!

What ondkaja said, also, don’t worry, here’s the answer to that one.

Quoted from konr

Process mid in highlander is great for that mobility but as I mentioned it gives so many more opportunities for that soldier to be completely shut down. Say a soldier bombs into a combo of a heavy, a pyro and there is a scout nearby. Unless that team has no idea that the soldier is there (they’re completely retarded/blind) then that soldier should not get a pick on anyone. In 6s it’s a lot more viable of course because the only person you’ll ever see even close to the mid is the demo, but in HL you have the GRU, the whip etc and if a demo plays intelligently he will have backup from his team a whole lot quicker than he will in 6s.

I was talking about competitive in general, and mainly in 6s, there are plenty of maps recognized for being prone to soldiers for their mobility advantage, which is exactly the opposite of what you said.

In HL of course that mobility is countered by a lot of other classes and that leads to you holding areas much more often instead of jumping in, but it still doesn’t mean that you lose your mobility, you’re just countered much more easily.

Quoted from konr

Granary mid is good because there are tight corners. It’s good on the mid in a way if the enemy team stands in a corner but again it gives so many more opportunities on that mid for scouts to just completely deny that soldier. The example I just gave for process also applies to this. What still makes Granary good for soldier though is the tight corridors which to be honest it has less of than Steel. I never implied you wouldn’t do well not using the blackbox but I (and Muuki who iirc is a high level HL soldier) did imply that when doing so it made it almost impossible for people to push through a certain area.

Same as above, I was talking about competitive in general, and my opinion stands, granary is a soldier prone map, the mid is ridiculously soldier friendly, but of course you can be countered a lot easier in HL.

Quoted from konr

By saying that you can just rotate your combo there to kill that one soldier you aren’t really saying much either. The fact that you would have to do that in the first place just because one soldier has one corridor completely locked down on his own is absolutely ridiculous. In any good and balanced map that wasn’t good for soldier or was just okay for soldier as you seem to think it is, you would not need to commit that much to it. I hope you get what I’m trying to say here so I don’t have to type it again :P

If a soldier has one entrance locked down then either he is doing his job very well or the other team is doing a bad job. I played swiftwater the other day and one soldier alone was holding a single entrance from 2-3 players with the black box, does that make the map inherently shit? Just because you can hold one area as solly? He kept doing so because our team kept trying the same thing over and over with no success, had we rotated and pushed through the spot he was holding we would have destroyed their flank and pushed through that point. It’s pretty much the same in 6s, you have situations where the combo will quickly rotate to the flank to try and destroy the enemy flank and push from there instead, and it’s the same in HL, that’s how the game works. You don’t have to push from the same spot or hold the same areas all the time.

Also just because the soldier is holding down one area and if you really dont want to rotate your combo then why even bother and keep feeding him damage and kills? Just tell your flank to set up a defensive position on the area he is holding and don’t let him get behind, and congratulations, you are already doing a decent job as a flank class, by doing the same as him.

Steel is fine as is, it’s a fun (albeit quite intense at times) map which you can employ a number of different strategies and playstyles on most classes and clearly if you’re getting wrecked by a single soldier then either he is playing well or you are not playing smart.


Last edited by Kaneco,

MIGHTY BURGER ツ

Awesome map, and a playground for Engie (at least for me ^^).

konr

Will read that wall of text in a bit but I didn’t actually say that unlocks didn’t change the game. I said that I don’t think it would have changed it for me. It being my opinion.

Okay so I read what you said and honestly it didn’t really address too much. I didn’t say that it wasn’t counter-able or that I personally have been wrecked by a single soldier. I said that I don’t like the design of the map because it makes that sort of play style very strong. Even if that soldier didn’t play like that he would still have a much better time than most other classes purely because of all of the corridors I’ve mentioned so many times.

That doesn’t change just because you give me something to counter a soldier. I’ve played this game before dude I know how stuff works. I just don’t enjoy maps that make it so fucking easy for soldiers to do well, or just in general maps that are anything like Steel. I do like Gravelpit though and I can understand in some points why it would be boring to watch.


Last edited by konr,

zoob

Quoted from

In this map it seems like you literally have zero reason what so ever to have to move as a soldier and you can just stay in one place for 99% of the map (with a blackbox even more so) and just be fine.

What? Steel rewards incredibly aggressive and mobile roaming soldier play on both defense and offense. There is almost always a way to flank the enemy team from a good position and combining this with a distraction/push from combo makes these plays extremely effective.

konr

Quoted from zoob

[…]

What? Steel rewards incredibly aggressive and mobile roaming soldier play on both defense and offense. There is almost always a way to flank the enemy team from a good position and combining this with a distraction/push from combo makes these plays extremely effective.

And you mean to say that you couldn’t just stand somewhere with a blackbox and also be very very effective?

Hildreth

Bully
Pander

Quoted from konr

[…]And you mean to say that you couldn’t just stand somewhere with a blackbox and also be very very effective?

He could hold the flank by standing there (on Defence) but he can also flank and sync it with our combo and be even MORE effective.

I wouldn’t argue with the zoob-man, he doesn’t say much but when he does feel the need to comment you know he’s right.

Kaneco

Quoted from zoob

[…]

What? Steel rewards incredibly aggressive and mobile roaming soldier play on both defense and offense. There is almost always a way to flank the enemy team from a good position and combining this with a distraction/push from combo makes these plays extremely effective.

Which is exactly what I was saying, It’s so easy to get behind unnoticed it would be a shame to waste all that potential by standing still spamming with the black box over and over.

I have no doubt both playstyles can work, which is what I said, this map can really open up to a lot of different playstyles, but I have been using that agressive roamer style (both on offense and defense) very efficiently so far. It’s a fun map imo :)

Carlos Kaiser

Quoted from Freakie

While the game was really aids, I liked the idea of top teams using vanilla loadouts. Terrible for an official, though.

I liked the part where you were building a sentry on A, destroyed it, got back on B, placed it randomly, missed 2 ammo packs and got a lvl 2 right when the setup time ended, i was waiting for the mp_restartgame or mp_switchteams, but then i realized that the game had really started.
No offense, but it looked funny c:

konr

Quoted from Hildreth

[…]

He could hold the flank by standing there (on Defence) but he can also flank and sync it with our combo and be even MORE effective.

I wouldn’t argue with the zoob-man, he doesn’t say much but when he does feel the need to comment you know he’s right.

I don’t think anything I said implied what he was wasn’t true :P

PuzZle

Boys
GG

I don’t like it.

Too spammy and tight… Not enough room to move around and DM for my taste pewpew

Doesn’t really feel like a tf2 map to me. I feel more like a robot than an individual player


Last edited by PuzZle,

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