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Quoted from lexs

[…]
Counter-Strike, Starcraft, Warcraft are hugely popular and they are as limited as TF2, maybe even more…

All of those games… the public game plays incredibly similar to the competitive game. New players can look at strategies and tricks that the pros use, and can adopt them into their game on a public server. They have an interest in watching those games, not because they care about the competitive scene, but they might simply want to improve their own public game, and watch people play the same game they play, at a higher level.

And as for them being more locked down than TF2? Tell me what other successful esport game title bans over 80% of the weapons / units / characters available to use in public play?

Quoted from AcidReniX

[…]

All of those games… the public game plays incredibly similar to the competitive game. New players can look at strategies and tricks that the pros use, and can adopt them into their game on a public server. They have an interest in watching those games, not because they care about the competitive scene, but they might simply want to improve their own public game, and watch people play the same game they play, at a higher level.

And as for them being more locked down than TF2? Tell me what other successful esport game title bans over 80% of the weapons / units / characters available to use in public play?

CoD4 modern warfare? Cause the stock game is unbalanced as fuck?

Quoted from AcidReniX

[…]

If you removed class limits, yes, there are more possible combinations, but due to class imbalances, the new meta game would actually result in far fewer viable class combinations, and a less diversity in the game. There would literally be no reason to run something like a sniper, spy, engineer or pyro, because often those classes are chosen as either a pick class to nullify an uber advantage (multiple medics negates that), or to defend against an uber push (additional demomen would do that job far better as they do not need to be near their sticky trap, and with multiple demomen you don’t just have a single lifeline on your last CP while the uber comes in).

I cannot even begin to describe how dumb your response is in light of all your other replies.

Quoted from Monkeh

3 demos with Scottish resistance…good luck pushing anywhere. How many stickies is that?

Hmm, 16 (is it?) x 3 is….ermmmmm hang on, I can get this….ermmmmm

48

That’s how public plays bro. We need to make it more like public. Public players don’t pick classes cause it’s effective, they pick them cause they like to play them.

Quoted from Koeitje

[…]
CoD4 modern warfare? Cause the stock game is unbalanced as fuck?

Are you telling me, that in competitive CoD4, players are only allowed to use a grand total of 6 weapons, and everything else is banned?

From a very quick, and rough count, I saw 33 guns in CoD4, and over 80% of that would mean 27 of them are banned. That includes grenades and handguns.

If that’s the case then dayum! I’m not a CoD4 player, so I don’t know for sure, but that sounds like a very mundane game to me.

Having weapons not used by choice (maybe they suck), is different to having them outright restricted. If all unlocks were allowed in TF2, I think still under 30% of them would actually get used, but at least those options are available to people.

Being pro means getting payed to play, nothing to do with hard to master.

engaged in a specified activity as one’s main paid occupation rather than as an amateur:
a professional boxer…or TF2 player

Quoted from AcidReniX

[…]
All of those games… the public game plays incredibly similar to the competitive game. New players can look at strategies and tricks that the pros use, and can adopt them into their game on a public server. They have an interest in watching those games, not because they care about the competitive scene, but they might simply want to improve their own public game, and watch people play the same game they play, at a higher level.

ok but if comp tf2 was to imitate pub tf2 I am pretty sure most top teams or current teams in general would quit because to be frank pub tf2 is pretty shit and not a real “esport game”

Quoted from AcidReniX

[…]
And as for them being more locked down than TF2? Tell me what other successful esport game title bans over 80% of the weapons / units / characters available to use in public play?

well tell me what other successful esport game title added 90% of the weapons after the game released? its not like valve added some auto sniper with lasers a year after css releaesd or blizzard added some tanks WW2 tanks to Warcraft 3. And even if blizzard adds stuff to games like Starcraft 2 its only after a long time of testing and balancing…

Quoted from Muuki

[…]Why are you comparing this game to some games which are meant to stand out as competetive games? Of course pub is going to be completely different in a game with the main money put into hats and a game which valve actually supports as an esport, in this case dota & cs:go. Just start facing the facts that tf2 will never rise up to a level of a true e-sport unless the community starts putting A LOT more effort into getting sponsors and exposure.

The playstyle is no problem, the unlocks aren’t a problem, the classlimits aren’t a problem: It’s the exposure. 90% of EU tf2 players probably have no idea that 6v6 even exists. The top stream in EU gets 200 views at a peak, + of course vanillatv stream which has what, 1000 views in grand finals? There is no button in the main menu to get into comp. There is no advertising of competetive leagues anywhere which a pubber would see. Start advertising and spread the word to new players and you might actually get players to join the league

Okay, so why don’t you look at it this way. How does riot make money? it’s a free game (like TF2), with a shop where you can buy characters and skins that you can use in game. Now imagine you have TF2, where your hero, BFF Darn, rocks up with a TDH, and gets some amazing kill spree or quadrillion airshot combo on a guy. You think to yourself, “Omg, he’s using that gun! I want to try it out!”. But then you look in your bag, and you don’t have it ;(. You can either wait for a random drop… find someone to trade with, or you can go and buy the gun from the shop.

Same with league of legends. A casual player, sees a professional rock it up with Ahri in mid, decides they want to try out that champion. They can either wait to farm up enough IP to buy her, or they can pay a few $$$ to get it from the shop. In their excitement, they part with their cash, and start playing like their hero.

Riot has an interest to promote the competitive game, because views on the pro streams will often result in direct sales in their shop. I know the first hand, because I’m a very casual league of legends player, and I watched the world championships, and saw a guy pull off some crazy stuff Kog’maw, and I had just spanked all my IP on runes and stuff. So I went and paid about $5 to go buy the champion.

So back to TF2. What motivation do valve have to give one million dollars to the competitive community? Everything we use, is already built into the free game. At most, we are doing advertisement for their game, which they don’t make any sales from. Valve switched to free to play, because they realised their shopping model makes them far more money than just selling the game does, and it also generates a decent stream of income, rather than a one off sale. If we want support from valve, they will need to know that there is a good chance they are going to make a return on their investment. Our matches being streamed on twitch might make 10 people download the game, and another 100 inactive players fire up the game, which might result in a couple of items being bought somewhere down the line. Great, pass us that £50 valve, it will help a lot.

On the other hand, had the competitive community embraced the items being brought into TF2, casual players might have ended up buying some items to be like the pros, giving valve more money, which in turn, they probably would have invested into the competitive community to gain further returns.