Forum

I love how some people assume that all of these ‘noobs’ want to get better at playing TF2. Not everyone plays games to get better, or be the best. Some people just enjoy playing, and so they do it, regardless of their skill level.

In terms of voting, their votes are just as valid, even if they are only based on how much ‘fun’ they want to have playing, and not based on game balance at all. Just because they play for a different reason, doesn’t make their opinions wrong. ETF2L is competitive because of the number of teams in the league. Skill level doesn’t make the game more or less competitive in my opinion, it’s all relative to the players around where your team currently is, so for that reason, ETF2L should be listening to the majority, rather than ‘players who are more experienced’, in order to keep the league as competitive as it can be.

Still, I feel ETF2L doesn’t need any changes at this time (as teams aren’t dropping off), but if they did decide to make any changes, they would have to be very gradual, consistent, and thought through (Something like…. having a vote to allow 1 additional unlock, for each class, each season, and then having a community vote on what unlock that should be).

To be clearer, this means each class gets 1 unlock that is voted for by the community before the start of each season. If something is game breaking, or ruins the game, you can almost guarantee it will not feature in the next season. Still, I don’t think ETF2L needs changes, not until teams start dropping (and not being replaced) in considerable numbers.

Isn’t there a seasonal effect on sign-up numbers as well though?

Quoted from Monkeh

Number of teams signed up for the last 3 seasons: 360 / 304 / 288

Definite and significant decline. Unless you feel 72 less teams in less than a year to be insignificant?

20% less signups from September 2011 to season 12. That’s loads.

Also the problems and deficiencies in any voting system have been discussed to death. We should just have look at other communities that have been playing with unlocks for years, like in the US, where they’ve been playing with and discussing them for ages. The work’s already been done, we don’t need to reinvent the wheel.

Motherfuckers can’t see the wood for the trees?!

You speak of decline and point to unlocks because NA has them and we don’t. I’ll tell you what else NA has that we don’t; a motherfucking professional organisation supporting them – ESEA.

We have the ETF2-fucking-L twiddling their dicks for the past X years, keeping things ticking over with headsets and mice but no progress what so ever to speak of. ESEA are hosting LAN finals 3 times a year with a dedicated news source in ESEANews, brilliant features such automatic stats and demo uploads and a rule set that doesn’t promote turtling (sup timelimit 30).

We had a chance to support a serious organisation ESL, but we all fucking cried our eyes about the Wire client without really trying to help iron out teething problems. Well guess what? ESEA has a shitty client too, and they fucking pay for the privilege to use it!

Add to that a well run, motivated and professional casting outlet in eXtelevision and a thriving community of streamers and I have to strain to see exactly what the fuck an Escape Plan is going to do to turn the tides of EU TF2s perceived decline.

Jesus fucking Christ lads, wake up and smell the coffee.

I have no beef with ETF2L or their admins who spend countless hours making shit happen for no money, but I am just trying to give some motherfucking perspective to this “debate”.

Quoted from Monkeh

I’m beginning to feel it might have more to do with the format we play as well. The whole 30 minute time limit actively encourages turtle tactics, slow, boring to watch and play and mired in a ‘play it safe and hold’ mentality.

Changing to the US system will undoubtedly encourage more offensive and fast paced games. Some unlocks will encourage this more.

Can’t wait for the unlocks forum tbh.

The US ruleset/unlocks allow for just as much play it safe and hold. Holding a point can also be a psychological advantage over your opponent when you’re a few rounds up over them, it gives them some time to ponder their position and feel the pressure of time. Put your opponent under some pressure and they are more likely to make mistakes.

Truthbombs ahoy! Thanks James, well said.

So what do we do? I say try to create a more spectator friendly cast experience and go full US rules to get a faster paced game, stick in a similar set of unlocks, see if more peeps watch casts and go from there.

I hear more peeps watching could equal more sponsors could equal more prizes could start the self reviving circle of powah.

I don’t wanna watch this game die over here, maybe I’m over dramatising, but why not have a chat and work out if we can change things for the better.

I like woods, let’s go exploring!

So for all this “First to 5” stuff, thinking back to when we played first to 6, did we really play that much faster of a game than we do now? I’m not sure changing the ruleset to being a first to five will make the EU play any faster than we already do. It’s a matter of style, and I don’t think changing unlocks OR the rules will change that style.

It seems silly to think by copying US rule sets we’ll magically start playing in a faster, American style.

EDIT: Also, in terms of casting and streaming, some top player streaming would be nice. As for casting, having casts be more wildly promoted might be an idea, although I admit I don’t know much on that front. Also, to get VTV massive main stream approval the standard of casting really has to be set quite high. High in an entertaining sense, not in a sense of getting mad as fuck when people make slightly off colour jokes. You need to have the product fit the market.