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F2 or anyone else. (Pickup Bots.)

Created 29th February 2012 @ 10:58

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Trath

Quoted from octochris

I’m inclined to say skill systems don’t work no matter how much data you have. People aren’t predictably skilled in pickups, even if you weight it by class.

This goes more for open pickups than pu2/etc, but it still stands to some degree.

The captains system encourages a higher quality of pickups from what I can see. Whether this actually happens or not I don’t know because I haven’t ever really played them (but from what I’ve heard it works fairly well).

Gotta say I think your wrong on this, because the Israeli pickup bot gets 9/10 gathers right, with equal forces and a close match. As far as I know, its done by:

1. A good objective rating of players by higher skilled people who know them/have seen them. ( So a combination of the admins + several high div players decide the rankings)

2. Giving more weight to certain classes. I think it goes: Demo,Med,Soli,Scout

If you put a Captain system on a “global” eu pug channel, I doubt it would work. What are the chances that Captains have any clue about 50% of the players? All that would come out is that Div1/Prem guys get picked,maybe 1 of the captains knows 1 other guy, and the rest are randomly picked.

h1

:3
BM

Quoted from Trath

What are the chances that Captains have any clue about 50% of the players? All that would come out is that Div1/Prem guys get picked,maybe 1 of the captains knows 1 other guy, and the rest are randomly picked.

+1 end up nobody below div2 gets picked.

Dummy

))

Quoted from Trath

[...]

Gotta say I think your wrong on this, because the Israeli pickup bot gets 9/10 gathers right, with equal forces and a close match. As far as I know, its done by:

1. A good objective rating of players by higher skilled people who know them/have seen them. ( So a combination of the admins + several high div players decide the rankings)

2. Giving more weight to certain classes. I think it goes: Demo,Med,Soli,Scout

If you put a Captain system on a “global” eu pug channel, I doubt it would work. What are the chances that Captains have any clue about 50% of the players? All that would come out is that Div1/Prem guys get picked,maybe 1 of the captains knows 1 other guy, and the rest are randomly picked.

what do you think happens in NA, only invite players add up =s?
its also “global” but everybody knows each other pretty well xD
israeli community is tiny, EU over-all isnt, so doing it person by person is retarded (people are judged by others.. who know them… so basically youre saying word-of-mouth would work – like in israel – and then that it wouldnt – in EU as a whole – ok then makes sense np good logic there)
the only negative to a captain system is that completely new people wont get picked, only ‘solution’ ive seen is for em to get known through playing in a team, or playing early pugs where its 12-13 players only so they get picked, get known, and then get picked more (if theyre awful thats less likely ofc)

Trath

Quoted from Dummy

[...]
what do you think happens in NA, only invite players add up =s?
its also “global” but everybody knows each other pretty well xD
israeli community is tiny, EU over-all isnt, so doing it person by person is retarded (people are judged by others.. who know them… so basically youre saying word-of-mouth would work – like in israel – and then that it wouldnt – in EU as a whole – ok then makes sense np good logic there)
the only negative to a captain system is that completely new people wont get picked, only ‘solution’ ive seen is for em to get known through playing in a team, or playing early pugs where its 12-13 players only so they get picked, get known, and then get picked more (if theyre awful thats less likely ofc)

Doing it player by player may be some work for a general EU pug chan, but it will be great when done. Just make a player list by Country, and like 3 Div1/Prem guys from each country to rank players from there own country.
A captains system however IS totally retarded for as you say, a big community/General EU.

Rake

Lutunen

I suppose I’m retarded, but how would a captain system mean that some players dont get picked. It would still works the same, where 12 people add up and then 2 captains are selected at random. Since the players playing in the pickup are usually pretty much the same it wont take particularly long to get to know most of their skill levels.

Trath

Quoted from Rake

I suppose I’m retarded, but how would a captain system mean that some players dont get picked. It would still works the same, where 12 people add up and then 2 captains are selected at random. Since the players playing in the pickup are usually pretty much the same it wont take particularly long to get to know most of their skill levels.

I didn’t say people don’t get picked and therefore left out, but rather the captains won’t know enough people to make the teams somewhat even.

Gubbins

[FG]

I’d love to not pick alfa.

AnimaL

Quoted from Trath

[...]

I didn’t say people don’t get picked and therefore left out, but rather the captains won’t know enough people to make the teams somewhat even.

how would captains not know enough ppl if you can be captain only after you have played x number of games?! you make no sense

Trath

Quoted from AnimaL

[...]how would captains not know enough ppl if you can be captain only after you have played x number of games?! you make no sense

Dosen’t really matter how many games you play. If your looking to create a big channel where everybody will play pickups, nobody is going to know even half of everybody.

AnimaL

i think ur just stubborn… i feel i know how bad pug ballance will be like 5 seconds after bot picks team… its allways the same 20-30 ppl added there

Trath

Quoted from AnimaL

i think ur just stubborn… i feel i know how bad pug ballance will be like 5 seconds after bot picks team… its allways the same 20-30 ppl added there

idk man, Pixel pugs don’t happen to often, but when they do, TheSucker Kaidus and TviQ are together againt for twice and a row.
I just think a proper bot would be the best option.

Also another way to look at it; creating rankings for ea person will take a while, but it means that in the end, teams are automatic.

In a captain system, it means every pug you gotta make the whole team picking. then people have to take their place in mumble. It just seems like letting room for too much to go wrong or take a long time…

luzik

kerava
(? XD


Last edited by luzik,

skeej

wookie
|ks|

An individual’s ability to operate well with other players in the team, and thus achieving round wins, can’t be quantified by a single digit.

Even if we’d try to approximate a proper player assessment using 1 number, the worst way would be to let just one (or a few) person(s) assign these digits to every player (admins). This causes an incredibly more one-sided and static judgement of players compared to having captains picking players autonomously for every subsequent pickup.

Picking, wanting to be picked, and being picked in it themselves also stimulate a sense of responsibility for the participants, I’d say.

Trath: As much as we’d want the pickups to be as popular as possible, I don’t think we’ll ever get to the point where people who played 25+ pickups don’t know the majority of people, either from playing with them as friend or foe. I think you’re pointing at a hypothetical problem that will probably never happen anyway.

cinq

I think I have the solution, I just need to code it.

Waebi

‹Con›

Quoted from cinq

I think I have the solution, I just need to code it.

hello to you too.

Quoted from Gubbins

I’d love to not pick alfa.

and i thought you were the fat kid.


Last edited by Waebi,

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