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Quoted from flushy

[…]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imqFvfbch6Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtMv6V7ZvmE

Everyone has the right to whine at things they don’t like.

Quoted from Hildreth

Everyone has the right to whine at things they don’t like.

After being banned from these forums becuause of doing that under past administration I would have to disagree :P

Trust me, if you would let the league get run by skyride, you would get stuff done for half a season.

Quoted from Martn

Trust me, if you would let the league get run by skyride, you would get stuff done for half a season.

actually, if he was admin, it’d work like this:
– a new league season is announced to start in 8 weeks, signups after 6
– after 10 weeks, signups would actually open
– the league would start 6 weeks later cause HAGGIS
– you’d not be able to enter results, you’d have to query an IRC bot which would randomly crash once every 10 or so tries
– he’d randomly go AWOL and procrastinate
etc
<3

hurr durr ^
the admin team isnt elected, so there’s no way you could make sure a “balance” of viewpoints etc was there.

Quoted from CanFo

[…]
No, not 1 out of 10 is pro vanilla. I said “for example”, read: “this is one, there might be more”. However, I am not going to go through the preferences of every admin here, most of us simply enjoy to play the game.

Enough on unlocks, there are already several threads about unlocks in this forum. This is not one of them.

Sorry, I wasnt clear, dont mean that the admin team is “wrong”, it could be the other side too.
And I know this isnt a democracy, just pointed out something weird.

Quoted from Skyride

[…]

You’re constructing a straw man. The game has changed a lot in a year and a half, along with the opinions of a lot players. Now it’s tipped in favour of the real majority actually wanting vanilla. They’ve pretty much been convinced round by what the top players have been saying, roughly since the FaN was released.

I don’t understand what you’re saying. Are you saying that I’m wrong the majority want vanilla? Are you saying theres something about ETF2L that makes it the exception to literally every single other major comp TF2 event? What?

This is what bothers people about ETF2L in general. Everything you do is completely schizophrenic with very little or no direction, and then become defensive when people complain (even when it’s constructive). When the unlock rules were announced for season 9, there was no clear reason why you made the decision you were making. There was no vision or deeper level of thought put into it beyond “Well I suppose we’ll allow some of the unlocks”.

“This season, we’ve come up with the Cinnamon ruleset. We believe that this represents a reasonable compromise between the often touted vanilla+medlocks, and the wants of a number of players newer to the scene. We believe that allowing a number of unlocks, will help entice newer players to the scene from public play, while still allowing existing players and the more casual side of it, to have plenty of fun games”.

If that had been on the Season 9 announcement post, we could have then had the debate “ok, so the unlocks are allowed because they think it’ll entice new players, do we really think this will work?”. That would have been a reasonable debate, with plenty of logic and good arguments from both sides. What instead happened, was that people just started posting their (uninformed) personal opinions on the unlocks, and it ended up just becoming a complete waste of energy to put forth anything into the debate. I know it’s controversial to say that most people have an uninformed opinion, but that just is the truth. The best people to ask about balance and so on are the players in prem and the top end of div1, they are there because they are the best at the game. If they say ‘x’ is overpowered, it’s almost certainly overpowered.

So the debate really needs to be “is allowing ‘x’ good for the scene?”. Unfortunately for the reasons stated above, we never reached that level.

ETF2L right now needs leaders with a bit of vision. That’s not an insult to any of the current head admins because they are all completely competent people and have clearly done a fantastic job to bring is to where we are now, it’s just a case of the right person for the job.

Don’t get me wrong, I was not trying to make a straw man to undermine your post or opinion. Your posts happen to be the more constructive ones, so they are the best to react on, that does not mean that I heavily disagree with you though. My only goal was to address the current majority angle (note: not to discuss what it supports) and some of its implications.

The main problem is that it keeps the community split, for it to work you’d need to establish that the majority takes all and disregard the rest (no compromises). Some earlier comments in this thread arguing to match ban everybody who only just disagrees (even though they accept playing with what other people want) shows this problem. Other then that it focuses on being divided it’s also a bit reckless imo, previous polls (even those close to the start of season 9) have shown a majority for weapons like gunboats, having a poll might go either way. As your post argues very well, there are better and more important factors and arguments regarding unlock rules, they can settle things in a much better way. As mentioned in my previous post, the f2p update means there is a very good argument to stick to a small set of unlocks and it gives great perspectives for the future. There was a great final, the unlockalypse never came and whatever the future holds, things won’t be terrible for at least a while. We should get at ease a bit and focus on things more important then if 1 or 2 weapons like quick-fix, equalizer or crossbow should be allowed.

Regarding your comments about clarity and explanation, I agree that there’s always room for improvement, and things did not go perfect. That said, I do want to note there was more explaining around s9 rules then during most previous seasons. As an example, there was an amazing article by a sc2 competitive designer about choice in competitive games and how it relates to spectators. It implied a distinction between choices as seen by spectators and by players, and that to an extent it can be good for spectators (spy is a great example). One of the things it talked about was that at high level, to much choice can be detrimental and to random for top players (that sounds familiar? ;) ). The admin who posted it immediately got attacked with “rofl div6 noob” or was ignored, which considering it just linked to said article, was quite remarkable. I could go further into why and how the debate unfortunately didn’t work, but that’s all past now anyway. I’ll just paste what I wrote earlier to finish this post.

There was a great final, the unlockalypse never came (and never will) and whatever the future holds, things won’t be terrible for at least a while. Peace.