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Quoted from WildCard

Not going to debate the difference between etf2l and ESL as they are widely known to everyone.

friendly admins? im sure some people would say the opposite all depends on your own expereince with them, I know i would :) and in our 1 official we had countless problems :P hence why we droped.

As I say depends on your own experience.

And I agree with this. But we want people to play in both ESL and ETF2L and at the moment the majority are just playing ETF2L. I would like to see this change where both leagues are used but it appears there has to be some changes to ESL unless every team has a sudden change of heart for unexplained reasons.

It is all well and good to blame people for being lazy, but these same lazy people are playing in ETF2L without these complaints. I realise that admins commit a large amount of their free time to help run these leagues, but I also recognise that they want the league to do well, so I do think there needs to be changes.

lol?
i crashed midmap and restarted wire right after my pc booted back up.

and me letting you on my pc via teamviewer, are you serious!?

Changes such as what? as I’ve said before changes with regards to mercs,pps etc are not somtihng that the tf2 admin team can get changed there generic for the majority of games at ESL.

As you have said alot esl isnt and never will be etf2l people need to stop comparing it to them, especially now that it seems both leagues will be heading in two different directions.

Quoted from CrashSite

[…]

So ESL goes for the guilty until proven otherwise? Also this is what this thread has been about, the annoyances of using Wire, due to Wire Marco will have to spend even more time, on top of the fact Wire crashed him in the middle of a game, going through Wire with an admin to prove it was Wire. Then you will take always the points THE FIRST TIME wire causes him to crash out. It makes it sound like you are doing a favor by taking away his PP that was caused by your program…

So what your rearly saying is you dont like wire and you dont think people should be forced to use it? as opposed to a ETF2L AC team /free beavern :)

Quoted from WildCard

Changes such as what? as I’ve said before changes with regards to mercs,pps etc are not somtihng that the tf2 admin team can get changed there generic for the majority of games at ESL.

As you have said alot esl isnt and never will be etf2l people need to stop comparing it to them, especially now that it seems both leagues will be heading in two different directions.

Merc rules is annoying but I understand there is nothing that can be done about it. At the moment I can only think of Wire that needs changing, just from the feedback here, as I don’t play in ESL, but there has to be some more just because have to be some reasons why teams do not want to play in ESL.

I also don’t agree with the ESL and ETF2L are so different that you can’t compare them. They are both leagues that offer competitive TF2, the ‘different’ directions you are talking about are not confirmed, nor do I think, as large as everyone wants them to be because they like drama.

To respond to your edit:

I think that Wire needs to be improved so there are not these issues. It needs to be tested a load before a Season by helpful people. I can’t comment on false bans like I can’t comment on bans that might not have happened because Wire can’t detect it. Neither is provable.

Quoted from mvp.

here are the logfiles anakin, if you cant find them on your ESL site:

marco. bb
login: 11.04.11 21:13
logout: —
login: 11.04.11 21:51
logout: 11.04.11 22:39

are you kidding me? are you really telling me i crashed my wire on purpose!?

He is telling you if you make an exception for one you have to do it for all. Hence anyone who inteded to cheat in esl at tf2 would simply crash his wire and ” sorry wire crashed not my fault ”

That is why admins are strict on handing out pps with regards to wire. And whats wrong with teamviewer, you have something to hide? :) I know alot of people anakin has helped because of it to solve there wire issues.

Quoted from WildCard

[…]

He is telling you if you make an exception for one you have to do it for all. Hence anyone who inteded to cheat in esl at tf2 would simply crash his wire and ” sorry wire crashed not my fault ”

That is why admins are strict on handing out pps with regards to wire. And whats wrong with teamviewer, you have something to hide? :) I know alot of people anakin has helped because of it to solve there wire issues.

Make an exception because Wire appears to be a piece of shit? (I know I being harsh but it is starting to annoy me). It was Wire’s fault, not Marco’s so you will do him a fucking favor by removing PP points when he did everything he could?

So it is good to know that ESL has the guilty until you prove yourself innocent…

Also Teamviewer is an extreme invasion of privacy, I don’t like my friends touching stuff on my comp, let alone some random guy from the internet. It is a normal human reaction to not let people in your personl space/stuff.

Quoted from CrashSite

[…]It was Wire’s fault, not Marco’s so you will do him a fucking favor by removing PP points when he did everything he could?

And how do we know it was Wire fault? Sure I’d like to believe Marco, but it’s not because he is in premiership and we know him that he shouldn’t get penalty points while someone that is in Division 5 and has the same problem, get penalty points because we don’t know him he could be lying? It’s either give them for everybody or give them for none as Wildcard said.
If we don’t give them then it doesn’t make much sense as people will just start killing wire.exe 1 second after the game started and claim that Wire crashed.

Anyway, it will soon be possible to see on matches pages for how long Wire has been running, in case it crashed or there was an other problem which prevented the logout.