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ETF2L Highlander Season 8 Feedback Thread

Created 8th March 2015 @ 19:28

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Quoted from kKaltUu

Currently banned weapons will be unlocked in further seasons, given the weapons functions as described (no major bugs)

Nein, bitte…

Raelyn

THEORIST

Quoted from kKaltUu

Currently banned weapons will be unlocked in further seasons, given the weapons functions as described (no major bugs)

Or, you know, you could wait and see if players will actually want this. With a cup? Or even a vote? These threads are entirely redundant otherwise really.

It’s truly a mystery how players get upset with admin decisions.

Goreston

ᵍaₑtᵃ

Quoted from b33p

I genuinely don’t know, are Short Circuit and Reserve Shooter bugged at the minute? If so, I understand why they’re banned but if not it’s just giving demos and soldiers an easy ride.

Reserve Shooter isn’t bugged, although TF2 itself has some funny ideas about what constitutes airborne; there are a lot of instances where standing on props or railings, for example, will leave you vulnerable to mini-crits. Short Circuit is not bugged.

Of the weapons that are currently banned, I believe Bazaar Bargain is the only bugged weapon, although arguably you could include the Baby Face’s Blaster, which I think can cause problems with the location of the scout’s hitbox at full speed. Not sure about that one though.

Personally, I prefer a slightly more restrictive whitelist. I don’t particularly enjoy playing against several of the weapons on the banlist, and I don’t think they add much of value to the game. That said, I wouldn’t object to an “allow everything” approach. What bothers me is that there is an obvious inconsistency of approach in this season’s whitelist. It’s disingenuous to pretend the Loch ‘n’ Load is some kind of balanced alternate playstyle sidegrade for demomen, when it’s blatantly just the Grenade Launcher+. The projectiles are easier to hit, harder to dodge, harder to airblast, and do more damage. The splash reduction is so small as to be irrelevant (25% compared to the Direct Hit’s 70%). It massively reduces Demoman’s supposed close range weakness and all you give up is one ‘nade, and rollers. UGC slapped a ban on it after a week of pre-season scrims showed it was out-damaging the sticky launcher.

What the current whitelist tells us is that this is all OK, but the Red Tape Recorder is just too much to deal with.

4hp

177013
COGU

I think the loch n load might be a little bit overrated at the minute. The american scrims most people are referring to were mostly on viaduct, which is a FANTASTIC map for LnL, but another weapon that does incredibly well on that map is the loose cannon (I’ve seen a cannon+targe demo outdamage a sticky demo in a div2 scrim) and it’s not considered OP or anything. I think in some maps like badwater or process you’re going to miss the roller spam, if nothing else. At the same time, the LnL offers an interesting alternative to deal with sentries that could come in handy for infamous holds such as badwater 3rd.

As for the bazooka my opinion is still the same. Amazing for bombs, bad at direct combat, exploit that.

In general I’m more into allowing weapons than banning them, I don’t think any of them destroy the game that badly, with the possible exception of the short circuit. Even the pomson… I bet you that you could allow it right now and people won’t even use it. If you’re running level 3 you pretty much need the rescue ranger, and if you’re on minis you’ll want the shotgun unless you’re obsessed with killing a certain DR spy…

There seriously needs to be some kind of cup, vote or something with the LnL. Everyone will most likely run it when they learn the arc. Because the projectile speed is so fast, its so much easier to use, and therefore harder to dodge, possibly harder to airblast aswell? On top of that theres less selfdamage, which basically makes demos key weakness go away. It’s not like you give up chokespam either, as you can’t really peek LnL and the demo can do it from farther away. This in turn encourages more spam. The -25% is a weakness, but really doesn’t make that big of a difference. even at the top of hl this thing can do more damage than the traditional sticky demo alone.

I hate playing against the beggars, but I don’t mind seeing it in the season, but please just not the LnL. Its just an upgrade.

Scissors

(ETF2L Donator)

people seriously underestimate rollers, and since the LnL can’t oneshot anymore, the stock grenades got a bigger benefit from the pipe-buff.

4hp

177013
COGU

Quoted from Toast

On top of that theres less selfdamage, which basically makes demos key weakness go away.

IIRC the self-damage is the same as with the normal grenade launcher. The buff fixed a long-standing issue where you would take increased self-damage and two-shot yourself if you tried to kill someone point blank.

ondkaja

TBC

Quoted from Goreston

[…]

Reserve Shooter isn’t bugged, although TF2 itself has some funny ideas about what constitutes airborne; there are a lot of instances where standing on props or railings, for example, will leave you vulnerable to mini-crits.

The minicrits on reserve shooter works like this; a target is airborne if it is not standing on solid ground, which includes railings, 1 mm lips, invisible walls etc. That means, it doesn’t matter if the target is falling down from a 10 m distance or a 5 cm distance, during the time it is airborne it takes minicrits from the reserve shooter. I believe this detection is lag compensated (not 100% sure), which means that ping affects the detection. For example, if the shooter’s ping is 100 ms, during the time it takes for this event to be transferred to the server, the target can already be on solid ground, but since the target is still airborne on the shooter’s screen, the server will make the hit a minicrit.

So in short, it’s not really bugged since that’s pretty much how all hit detection is affected ping, without lag compensation the game would be difficult to play on higher pings. However, it is pretty random if you get minicritted even though you are not airborne, but still not a bug.

Toba

(a boT from the North)
Lutunen

Quoted from ondkaja

[…]

The minicrits on reserve shooter works like this; a target is airborne if it is not standing on solid ground, which includes railings, 1 mm lips, invisible walls etc. That means, it doesn’t matter if the target is falling down from a 10 m distance or a 5 cm distance, during the time it is airborne it takes minicrits from the reserve shooter. I believe this detection is lag compensated (not 100% sure), which means that ping affects the detection. For example, if the shooter’s ping is 100 ms, during the time it takes for this event to be transferred to the server, the target can already be on solid ground, but since the target is still airborne on the shooter’s screen, the server will make the hit a minicrit.

So in short, it’s not really bugged since that’s pretty much how all hit detection is affected ping, without lag compensation the game would be difficult to play on higher pings. However, it is pretty random if you get minicritted even though you are not airborne, but still not a bug.

+ do you still get minicrits with the reserve shooter, if the target is walking up/down stairs? Can’t remember if they fixed it


Last edited by Toba,

4hp

177013
COGU

Quoted from Toba

[…]

+ do you still get minicrits with the reserve shooter, if the target is walking up/down stairs? Can’t remember if they fixed it

not sure but I think they fixed this when they removed groundstalling

b33p

(ETF2L Donator)
-st-

Quoted from Toast

Because the projectile speed is so fast, its so much easier to use, and therefore harder to dodge, possibly harder to airblast aswell? On top of that theres less selfdamage, which basically makes demos key weakness go away. It’s not like you give up chokespam either, as you can’t really peek LnL and the demo can do it from farther away. This in turn encourages more spam.

I agree with this, LnL spam is more effective than pipe spam even without the rollers. It’s so fast that people often don’t have time to dodge it. I played a few HL games with LnL and found I was constantly out of ammo because the spam was so effective, people just don’t have a chance to dodge it at the last second when they would have been able to dodge with Stock.

LnL is game changing (this is probably good overall) but allowing this and denying weapons which counter demo and soldier is somewhat unreasonable.

Vinegar Strokes

pHy

Hey this might seem noobish but what is the pre-season playoffs? We have e new div 6 team and we dont know if we have to play them or that it is something for players that play higher.

Spycy

TC.Express

Quoted from Vinegar Strokes

Hey this might seem noobish but what is the pre-season playoffs? We have e new div 6 team and we dont know if we have to play them or that it is something for players that play higher.

Pre-season playoffs are games that are supposed to decide which team enters a certain div, this usually happens in Prem/Div1 because only 8 teams can enter the division, and a lot of teams ask for it.
Div6 is ‘free’ (by which I mean anyone can join it) to enter and you dont need to “prove” a certain skill level to be allowed to join, so you will not have to play before the season.


Last edited by Spycy,

Toba

(a boT from the North)
Lutunen

LnL is pretty good weapon on certain maps, RIP Koth :D -> http://logs.tf/716540


Last edited by Toba,

Vinegar Strokes

pHy

Quoted from Spycy

[…]

Pre-season playoffs are games that are supposed to decide which team enters a certain div, this usually happens in Prem/Div1 because only 8 teams can enter the division, and a lot of teams ask for it.
Div6 is ‘free’ (by which I mean anyone can join it) to enter and you dont need to “prove” a certain skill level to be allowed to join, so you will not have to play before the season.

Tnx dude!


Last edited by Vinegar Strokes,

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