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[Highlander Season 5] Feedback Required!

Created 22nd July 2013 @ 00:04

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unu

Quoted from jwso

is pocket pistol allowed

Write “I will read the original post and not ask unrelated questions” 100 times on a blackboard.

jwso

( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡9

Quoted from unu

[…]

Write “I will read the original post and not ask unrelated questions” 100 times on a blackboard.

I’m not going to make a thread just to ask one simple question.

Python

Quoted from jwso

[…]
I’m not going to make a thread just to ask one simple question.

!admin on IRC http://etf2l.org/help/support/

Permzilla

(Legend)
(☞゚ヮ゚)☞
WiK?

Unlocks haven’t been decided, but at the moment they’ll probably be the same as the HLNC #2. I wouldn’t be surprised to see another weapon balance update before then though, so who knows.

Toba

(a boT from the North)
Lutunen

Quoted from Python

[…]

!admin on IRC http://etf2l.org/help/support/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VRZq3J0uz4

Fresh'z

§GOLD

Quoted from Toba

[…]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VRZq3J0uz4

shits getting serious, son

SabaSaba

[hePPa]

A few ideas for the new highlander season. These came into my mind after playing in the nations cup.

1) Do not allow Barnblitz_pro to be played in future highlander seasons, unless it’s the new version (by Bubblebobbler and co) with new routes. Like most people agree on this forum, Bbliz is too easy to defend in it’s current form.

2) The rules should set a deadline for the map picks. We found out our maps for the semi final 45 minutes before the match time because the enemy team wasnt responding to our requests or simply did not want to start picking maps. This is ridiculous and effectively ruined our chance to practice the specific maps. There should be a rule which states when the maps should be picked.

Better team won in the end, I’m not complaining about that, but it still gives a bitter aftertaste.

Popcorp

No granary, No CTF please

ashkan

Quoted from SabaSaba

2) The rules should set a deadline for the map picks. We found out our maps for the semi final 45 minutes before the match time because the enemy team wasnt responding to our requests or simply did not want to start picking maps. This is ridiculous and effectively ruined our chance to practice the specific maps. There should be a rule which states when the maps should be picked.

I have to agree with this. It did cause a problem.

yonus

[hePPa]

Quoted from SabaSaba

2) The rules should set a deadline for the map picks. We found out our maps for the semi final 45 minutes before the match time because the enemy team wasnt responding to our requests or simply did not want to start picking maps. This is ridiculous and effectively ruined our chance to practice the specific maps. There should be a rule which states when the maps should be picked.

Better team won in the end, I’m not complaining about that, but it still gives a bitter aftertaste.

It seems fair that there is no deadline for deciding maps because both teams are equally affected by doing it or not. It seems that way because any advantages or disadvantages of choosing when to do the map picks are distributed equally to both teams, right?

But there is one advantage to be gained by delaying the map picks:

This advantage becomes possible when you know your own team is not going to practice, for whatever reason, until a certain time. You delay the map picks until that time so that your opponent also cannot practice until that same time. Of course, their team can simply practice all possible maps but that means a large portion of that practice is wasted on maps that won’t be played. The delaying team is able to lessen the disadvantage of not practicing by depriving the opposing team of practice as well.

There’s two reasons why a team will not practice:

1. They would but can’t
2. They could but don’t

In the first situation, it’s possible to view the ability of reducing the opposing team’s effective practice time as a device to even the playing field when your own team is met with unfortunate circumstances. So, one might say that it’s unlucky for a team to play worse because of things they can’t control and because we don’t want competitive tf2 to be centered on which team just happens to be luckier it’s fair that, in this case, the unlucky team is able to give their opponent a similar disadvantage.

The argument against this is that we want better gameplay skills to be the cause of teams winning matches. This method has nothing to with gameplay. In fact, it hinders gameplay. Also, etf2l enforces match deadlines with sanctions on offending teams meaning that meeting unfortunate circumstances doesn’t justify being compensated in the league.

In the second situation it’s clear that something is wrong: a team that just chooses to not practice is able to force their voluntary disadvantage on their opponent. One team makes a choice while the other has no choice but to make do with less practice. It’s unfair for a team to play worse because of things they can’t control but their opponent does control.

I hope that people see that this kind of metagame device shouldn’t be a part of competitive tf2. It’s a loophole in the rules that, in a certain situation, can be abused to sabotage your opponent without harming your own team and you don’t need any skill in tf2 to accomplish this. The level of tf2 played in etf2l is hurt as teams will go into matches less practiced than they’d like to be.

I think everyone wants the league to be as much about tf2 as it’s reasonably possible.

PS. The main reason I’m so mad is because losing isn’t so bad when you feel you just couldn’t have done any better in the limited time you had to improve. Had the practice I scheduled for team Finland been used effectively it’d have been less painful to be beaten by a stronger team. But the way it happened I feel like we were robbed of the chance to show the best we could do and that adds a whole lot more frustration on top of losing. This would be the bitter aftertaste Saba mentions.

kustom3

AwS
DA!

Sorry for calling it this way, but enough with the bullshit theories you’re trying to pull here. Sometimes it strikes me as crazy it is how people forget we’re playing video games.
Who are you to decide on what grounds the victory should be decided?
IIRC, SNSD delayed the map elims until about half an hour before the season 4 grand final (feel free to correct me if I’m wrong), and we didn’t call nine-whine-whine about it everywhere on forums and comments. They did complain however about bo1 pl maps afterwards, thanks kaidus for the 3 hours groupstage games btw, no hard feelings I hope :).

So, let me put it this way, you guys trained dozen of hours more than us to get a better teamwork or individual skills for this competition. Which team do you think went into this game with a disadvantage in your opinion? Tbh, most of us went into this game with the feeling that we’d be stomped considering how much effort you put into this. Team coordination is not linked to a map, you have to adapt to situations as a team, and I feel that if you’ll watch the vods from Hildreth, Skully and Arie(<3), you'll see that it's what we did, especially on badwater. We tried new tactics, some not even discussed before the game during the game, shouldn't it be rewarded? I mean if you want to turn this all esport/pro/viewership pleasure, well there you go.

Using the term "sabotage" when it happens that an hl admin (with a conflict of interest) "threatens" to do the map pick without us involved, what the heck with that, this lost us another ten minutes during our rushed preparation. Let's just forget about this sad moment, thanks Permzilla for sorting this out, you're the man (we still love you too CanFo).

I get that you're somehow hurt, but please, you guys are one of the best national hl teams of all times. Please keep that in mind, i mean it. Your approach of this competition is so "pro" and deserves a lot of respect even though it's hard for spectators to see that part. I don't get why instead of whining you don't keep preparing for the third place game against your beloved neighbors.

I wish you good luck in your future games, and hope that you take this more as a learning experience than a reason to complain the way you do. Competitive TF2 has a lot of "restraints", you have to deal with them and just not forget that we're playing video games for the love of Gabe.

Oh and props to zooob and rouHe for being two of the most "annoying" (in a good way) players we've ever met.

No hard feelings I hope.

ashkan

Regardless of the situation between Finland and France (yonus is perhaps more cynical than I am, and kustom3 ignored the issue at hand and threw things completely off-topic), I absolutely agree that there is no reason to enable a lazy team leader to limit the practice and planning of their opponents. I think it’s a fairly straight-forward issue in the rules that needs to be resolved, and I think you should ignore yesterday’s match when trying to discuss it.

Also related to the elimination rule: Is it just me, or is there absolutely no advantage to being the team to eliminate first? As it looks now, one team gets all three disadvantages: They have to eliminate maps first, they have to choose their map first, and they do not get to pick the decider map. Have I missed something? Shouldn’t the team that has to eliminate/pick first at least get the advantage of picking the decider map?

SabaSaba

[hePPa]

I just want a rule which makes the maps being picked earlier. Theres no more drama than that. I’m not trying to say that France does not deserve their victory or something like that. I just don’t want to be in this kind of situation ever again.

These lines of text I wrote are not affecting our practice for the bronze match.


Last edited by SabaSaba,

Linus

[d¿s]
007

I don’t know how the nations cup map picking went, however snsd got called out so I guess I should explain what happened. In the regular season’s playoff we did leave picking the maps until the last minute. Why? Well, it’s fairly simple, and no, it’s not because of laziness.

We’ve won every single game in the regular season which granted us 1st seed in the playoffs so we “controlled” the map picks (essentially picking 2 out of 3) making it so that we could practice the maps beforehand without revealing it to our opponents. Now regardless of how well that worked out or how predictable it was, it’s a completely fair way of taking advantage of your position and that rule is completely fine. It’s a competitive format afterall.

kustom3

AwS
DA!

Had to express my thoughts somewhere. Sorry for being off-topic.

TL;DR
Deal with it.

Cheers

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