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	<title>Comments on: Promotion / Relegation System and another Hacker Caught.</title>
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	<link>http://etf2l.org/2009/03/29/promotion-relegation-system-and-another-hacker-caught/</link>
	<description>The European TF2 League</description>
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		<title>By: CHewY</title>
		<link>http://etf2l.org/2009/03/29/promotion-relegation-system-and-another-hacker-caught/comment-page-4/#comment-14422</link>
		<dc:creator>CHewY</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 17:38:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://etf2l.org/?p=23230#comment-14422</guid>
		<description>opened my browser and i loaded this thread and i JIZZED IN MY PANTS</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>opened my browser and i loaded this thread and i JIZZED IN MY PANTS</p>
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		<title>By: vlad_drac</title>
		<link>http://etf2l.org/2009/03/29/promotion-relegation-system-and-another-hacker-caught/comment-page-4/#comment-14345</link>
		<dc:creator>vlad_drac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 13:25:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://etf2l.org/?p=23230#comment-14345</guid>
		<description>lol walloftext again, idiots make me ragetype</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>lol walloftext again, idiots make me ragetype</p>
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		<title>By: vlad_drac</title>
		<link>http://etf2l.org/2009/03/29/promotion-relegation-system-and-another-hacker-caught/comment-page-4/#comment-14344</link>
		<dc:creator>vlad_drac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 13:24:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://etf2l.org/?p=23230#comment-14344</guid>
		<description>Do you even know what circumstantial evidence means?  Like if i accused viqun of cheating and showed a demo of him hitting me across a map with a rocket just as i came around a corner 300 miles away.  You can&#039;t link the proposed &#039;proof&#039; to the accusation of &#039;cheat&#039;, but you can link the accusation to the circumstance and use it to hint at a theory - and so it&#039;s circumstantial.

This isn&#039;t an international sport in the way that you&#039;re saying.  Nor is it trying to be nor can it ever be.  Even CS1.6 nor CSS isn&#039;t.  We&#039;re like the 12 y/o football club that plays on my local field.  If a kid in that team used performance enhancing drugs, he wouldn&#039;t get a FIFA appointed drug team sent to my field demanding a piss test.  The kid would play on to higher levels until he reached a point where the sport was prestigious enough to warrant thorough testing on all players.

That&#039;s like us.  We&#039;re playing for fun and there&#039;s little/no money involved.  We&#039;re closer to an international (or even non-international) sport at LAN events when people are under scrutiny and there IS larger sums of money involved.  They&#039;ll either be seen as a cheater or they&#039;ll play utter shit and people will begin to suspect.

To imagine league play would be like a large scale sport is ludicrous right now.  Do you think ETF2L could ever fund an international crack anti-cheat squad who went to people&#039;s houses and watched them for a week to see if they cheated/sucked suddenly?  Would the parents of the 16 y/o be ok with admins stood around perving on their kid?  There is not enough prestige in this game for that to be anywhere near a reality right now.  So that makes us like the 12 y/o football team, we&#039;re all playing at an amateur/beginner level.  There&#039;s no other level to be at.

But these guys still try their best to provide SOME level of policing which is more than most other sports provide to people playing at this level of competition.

Aimbots are still bots - a combination of algorithms and patterns - and so they work to identifiable patterns if you know what to look for - if you&#039;ve wasted the hours of your life learning how cheats work/the game works like the admins do.  This team of admin scours through hour after hour after hour of proof wasting their own time to try and better the community they made for us.  They talk to each other and do serious research on cheats to know down to the smallest movement of a mouse aim what to look for.  And they discuss it between a large team of people who know about the game and they get a consensus.

At the end of the day there&#039;s only 1 person i trust 100% to NOT be cheating and that&#039;s me, it&#039;s all i can trust.  Till the day i get banned (and i&#039;m 100% sure i won&#039;t because i don&#039;t cheat), i&#039;ll defend the admins for doing what they do for us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you even know what circumstantial evidence means?  Like if i accused viqun of cheating and showed a demo of him hitting me across a map with a rocket just as i came around a corner 300 miles away.  You can&#8217;t link the proposed &#8216;proof&#8217; to the accusation of &#8216;cheat&#8217;, but you can link the accusation to the circumstance and use it to hint at a theory &#8211; and so it&#8217;s circumstantial.</p>
<p>This isn&#8217;t an international sport in the way that you&#8217;re saying.  Nor is it trying to be nor can it ever be.  Even CS1.6 nor CSS isn&#8217;t.  We&#8217;re like the 12 y/o football club that plays on my local field.  If a kid in that team used performance enhancing drugs, he wouldn&#8217;t get a FIFA appointed drug team sent to my field demanding a piss test.  The kid would play on to higher levels until he reached a point where the sport was prestigious enough to warrant thorough testing on all players.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s like us.  We&#8217;re playing for fun and there&#8217;s little/no money involved.  We&#8217;re closer to an international (or even non-international) sport at LAN events when people are under scrutiny and there IS larger sums of money involved.  They&#8217;ll either be seen as a cheater or they&#8217;ll play utter shit and people will begin to suspect.</p>
<p>To imagine league play would be like a large scale sport is ludicrous right now.  Do you think ETF2L could ever fund an international crack anti-cheat squad who went to people&#8217;s houses and watched them for a week to see if they cheated/sucked suddenly?  Would the parents of the 16 y/o be ok with admins stood around perving on their kid?  There is not enough prestige in this game for that to be anywhere near a reality right now.  So that makes us like the 12 y/o football team, we&#8217;re all playing at an amateur/beginner level.  There&#8217;s no other level to be at.</p>
<p>But these guys still try their best to provide SOME level of policing which is more than most other sports provide to people playing at this level of competition.</p>
<p>Aimbots are still bots &#8211; a combination of algorithms and patterns &#8211; and so they work to identifiable patterns if you know what to look for &#8211; if you&#8217;ve wasted the hours of your life learning how cheats work/the game works like the admins do.  This team of admin scours through hour after hour after hour of proof wasting their own time to try and better the community they made for us.  They talk to each other and do serious research on cheats to know down to the smallest movement of a mouse aim what to look for.  And they discuss it between a large team of people who know about the game and they get a consensus.</p>
<p>At the end of the day there&#8217;s only 1 person i trust 100% to NOT be cheating and that&#8217;s me, it&#8217;s all i can trust.  Till the day i get banned (and i&#8217;m 100% sure i won&#8217;t because i don&#8217;t cheat), i&#8217;ll defend the admins for doing what they do for us.</p>
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		<title>By: Typh0n</title>
		<link>http://etf2l.org/2009/03/29/promotion-relegation-system-and-another-hacker-caught/comment-page-4/#comment-14310</link>
		<dc:creator>Typh0n</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 16:46:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://etf2l.org/?p=23230#comment-14310</guid>
		<description>&quot;In fact, you should sentence life-long bans if the cheater stands up and denies his cheating.
You should repent and say your are sorry, but it seems there is no feeling of guilt at all.&quot;
Wow luckily you&#039;re not an admin:x

&quot;Anyway, sure, sometimes someone gets caught who is innocent, but hey, that is how it is.&quot;
let&#039;s hope it won&#039;t happen to you cause i&#039;ll be here to say hey thats how it is =&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;In fact, you should sentence life-long bans if the cheater stands up and denies his cheating.<br />
You should repent and say your are sorry, but it seems there is no feeling of guilt at all.&#8221;<br />
Wow luckily you&#8217;re not an admin:x</p>
<p>&#8220;Anyway, sure, sometimes someone gets caught who is innocent, but hey, that is how it is.&#8221;<br />
let&#8217;s hope it won&#8217;t happen to you cause i&#8217;ll be here to say hey thats how it is =&gt;</p>
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		<title>By: holzkopp*</title>
		<link>http://etf2l.org/2009/03/29/promotion-relegation-system-and-another-hacker-caught/comment-page-4/#comment-14307</link>
		<dc:creator>holzkopp*</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 15:50:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://etf2l.org/?p=23230#comment-14307</guid>
		<description>-got</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>-got</p>
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		<title>By: holzkopp*</title>
		<link>http://etf2l.org/2009/03/29/promotion-relegation-system-and-another-hacker-caught/comment-page-4/#comment-14306</link>
		<dc:creator>holzkopp*</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 15:50:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://etf2l.org/?p=23230#comment-14306</guid>
		<description>omfg got I read the whole comments above me .. i must be really stupid D:</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>omfg got I read the whole comments above me .. i must be really stupid D:</p>
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		<title>By: notger</title>
		<link>http://etf2l.org/2009/03/29/promotion-relegation-system-and-another-hacker-caught/comment-page-4/#comment-14298</link>
		<dc:creator>notger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 11:18:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://etf2l.org/?p=23230#comment-14298</guid>
		<description>Good work, admins. Thanks a lot for your time and effort.

Cheaters are lousy s.o.b.s and I am glad for every cheater removed. In fact, you should sentence life-long bans if the cheater stands up and denies his cheating.
You should repent and say your are sorry, but it seems there is no feeling of guilt at all. Kids these days .... tststs.

Anyway, sure, sometimes someone gets caught who is innocent, but hey, that is how it is. And I think that the admins are pretty hesitant on banning (there is more banning in the ESL), so I do not think that there are too many innocent people found guilty out there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good work, admins. Thanks a lot for your time and effort.</p>
<p>Cheaters are lousy s.o.b.s and I am glad for every cheater removed. In fact, you should sentence life-long bans if the cheater stands up and denies his cheating.<br />
You should repent and say your are sorry, but it seems there is no feeling of guilt at all. Kids these days &#8230;. tststs.</p>
<p>Anyway, sure, sometimes someone gets caught who is innocent, but hey, that is how it is. And I think that the admins are pretty hesitant on banning (there is more banning in the ESL), so I do not think that there are too many innocent people found guilty out there.</p>
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		<title>By: ^dazed</title>
		<link>http://etf2l.org/2009/03/29/promotion-relegation-system-and-another-hacker-caught/comment-page-4/#comment-14267</link>
		<dc:creator>^dazed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 21:07:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://etf2l.org/?p=23230#comment-14267</guid>
		<description>I didn&#039;t know Waffle was French!


Sorry bad joke :S

Seriously though Waffle was seen aimbotting in a pickup 2 days ago and when asked why his crosshair was shaking he said &quot;because i&#039;m cold&quot;.....I mean LOL ..... how cold could it have been in Israel? 30c ? 40c ?

/FAIL WHALE</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t know Waffle was French!</p>
<p>Sorry bad joke :S</p>
<p>Seriously though Waffle was seen aimbotting in a pickup 2 days ago and when asked why his crosshair was shaking he said &#8220;because i&#8217;m cold&#8221;&#8230;..I mean LOL &#8230;.. how cold could it have been in Israel? 30c ? 40c ?</p>
<p>/FAIL WHALE</p>
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		<title>By: Bjuo</title>
		<link>http://etf2l.org/2009/03/29/promotion-relegation-system-and-another-hacker-caught/comment-page-4/#comment-14260</link>
		<dc:creator>Bjuo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 20:22:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://etf2l.org/?p=23230#comment-14260</guid>
		<description>lol cook
understanding your joke, I have to disagree with that
90% of Israel were sure hes hacking for the last 2 months and are happy that he&#039;s caught.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>lol cook<br />
understanding your joke, I have to disagree with that<br />
90% of Israel were sure hes hacking for the last 2 months and are happy that he&#8217;s caught.</p>
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		<title>By: cook</title>
		<link>http://etf2l.org/2009/03/29/promotion-relegation-system-and-another-hacker-caught/comment-page-4/#comment-14258</link>
		<dc:creator>cook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 20:15:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://etf2l.org/?p=23230#comment-14258</guid>
		<description>HE&#039;S INNOCENT BECAUSE HE&#039;S FROM THE SAME COUNTRY AS ME.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HE&#8217;S INNOCENT BECAUSE HE&#8217;S FROM THE SAME COUNTRY AS ME.</p>
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